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RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:17 pm
by Captain Cruft
BTW, and this is jumping the gun a bit, I worked out a way to have reasonable scenarios which start prior to Barbarossa.

Attach the vast bulk of the German army to a restricted HQ so it can't be loaded onto ships. Then surround neutral countries e.g Turkey with impassable hexes. Nowhere for the Heer to go then but eastward :)

Sealion and/or Norway would cause problems with this I suppose, but then if you were to start in Sept 1939 and give the Germans a reasonable amount of PPs then they could free up some Divs and whatever if they wanted to.

It's all moot without a map of course. Back to work! :)


RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:20 am
by Stwa
ORIGINAL: Terminus

But consider this: how interesting would 4 years of chasing and defending convoys be? I'm feeling old just thinking about it.[>:]

But this was the theme of the campaign game in GBNA (Great Battles of the North Atlantic), an SSI game, that is still considered one of the best of its time. Thats right all 4 years of it, and I have to say it was great. Done properly with the WitP engine, this aspect alone (i.e. forget the Med and Russia, etc..), would be extremely interesting and very challenging for the German player.

Also, the malaria zone, and fears about the map are just details that CAN be overcome. The concept is valid, because it has been done before, and if you can talk Matrix into going along for the ride, then I am certain, some programming changes to adapt the engine will be possible. Please fix the exit buttons when you get that far. [:D]


Oh and don't forget the hideous save game screen too,

Stwa

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:52 am
by Andrew Brown
ORIGINAL: Stwa
But this was the theme of the campaign game in GBNA (Great Battles of the North Atlantic), an SSI game, that is still considered one of the best of its time. Thats right all 4 years of it, and I have to say it was great. Done properly with the WitP engine, this aspect alone (i.e. forget the Med and Russia, etc..), would be extremely interesting and very challenging for the German player.

I remember GNBNA. Great game as you say, and a lot of fun.

My first attempt at a game mod was with GNBNA. I hacked the data files to give the Germans the CV Graf Zeppelin. It dutifully apeared on the correct arrival date, and I sent it into the Atlantic to sink British convoys. I found one, entered tactical mode (or whatever it was called) - everything seemed to be working fine until the aircraft took off from the Graf Zeppelin, clibmed, turned, and launched torpedoes at the Graf Zeppelin itself, which promptly sank. I guess I had not hacked the files properly - the aircraft still thought of themselves as British. Thus ended my GNBNA "Graf Zeppelin" mod...

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:41 am
by Captain Cruft
LOL I like it :)

There are enough slots in the database for entire fleets of Graf Zeppelins, or indeed Italian CVs (what was it going to have been called?).

I think some serious tweaking of the ASW weapons will be in order to even do the Battle of the Atlantic badly.

ETA for initial crude map is about 3/4 days BTW.

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:30 pm
by Stwa
ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

LOL I like it :)

There are enough slots in the database for entire fleets of Graf Zeppelins, or indeed Italian CVs (what was it going to have been called?).

I think some serious tweaking of the ASW weapons will be in order to even do the Battle of the Atlantic badly.

ETA for initial crude map is about 3/4 days BTW.


1. At some point you might want to check with Tankerace, because I think they have done some serious work on this for WPO. I am not sure if this was data changes, program code, or both.

2. As far as a Battle of Atlantic map, the old GNBNA map did not extend too far inland. You can basically make Europe impregnable, but have bases for land based air, ports, etc... Of course, the convoy routes to Northern Russia need to be on the map, which will call for some creativity on your part.

3. Also, the game does not HAVE to extend past June 44, but that comes much later.

4. Apart from the ASW changes, a Commerce Raider mission (or a suitable alternative), would have to be added. This of course, can only be done by Matrix, unless there is a way to do this already. (I am not that experienced with WitP). Basically the commerce raider will prey on defensless convoys, and try to avoid convoys that are defended.

5. In real life, obsolete capital ships were eventually added to convoys, which is a great excuse to use and have them in the game.

6. Carrier warfare would of course be limited if not non existant. The British would have a few, of course, replete with Stringbags (keeps the players laughing). The AI would seem stronger because there is really no carrier warfare and the whole engagement (Battle of the Atlantic), is not as dynamic and changing as the War in the Pacific.

7. Also, convoy AI is more straight forward and the auto convoy system would be more meaningful and greatly assist the Allied player.

8. SigInt stuff would have to pumped up to provide a ton more information, that will make the German player acutally use the information to detect where the convoys are and whether or not they are defended, etc.. Again something only Matrix can do.

9. And just a reverese for WitP, British and American capital ships would be whisked off to Med and/or the Pacific that are not part of the game.

10. The game could be almost a duplicate of GNBNA minus the "tactical" mode which jumped you from the war room to the fleet for some real time 3D combat. Most of the time players would have the computer auto run the tactical engagement and players would simply stare at the guages and counters while the battle proceeded. With the WitP system a 2D combat graphic would be MUCH BETTER, and would make much more sense than the 3D tactical mode.

11. Get some community people to help you so you don't feel alone or overwhelmed. Once the map is functional (i mean just a few bases). Include a few British, America, and German (use Japanese for now), for a proof of concept.

12. Don't get sucked into modelling the entire ETO/MTO/WIR on the same map, etc.. Go for Battle of Atlantic first. Its easier, much fewer units, and can still be really cool. The game should retail for $29 - $39 bucks.


Regards,

Stwa


RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:44 pm
by Captain Cruft
LOL thanks for the input but that's really not the plan. I just want to produce a mess-about European scenario for WitP. My interest is purely in bashing things into shapes they weren't designed for ;)

But yes any help, especially on OOBs, will be most welcome. Let's wait until I have a map though first ...

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:09 pm
by Stwa
ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

LOL thanks for the input but that's really not the plan. I just want to produce a mess-about European scenario for WitP. My interest is purely in bashing things into shapes they weren't designed for ;)

But yes any help, especially on OOBs, will be most welcome. Let's wait until I have a map though first ...


[&:][:@]

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:14 pm
by Captain Cruft
I'm just a punter like you so I don't know what you're on about really.

Besides which, it is quite clear that there will be no further development with this engine after WPO.

RE: Mods for other theatres

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:16 pm
by DuckofTindalos
Because it's a dead end; no matter how much you tinker, you're more likely to end up breaking something else instead of getting what you want (the auto-convoy system comes to mind). Live with it...