Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: JediMessiah

havent played with them for awhile, but i believe bicycle troops can be destroyed like a vehicle, 1 shot 1 kill...weird


-jedi

Not true. I remember having to fight with German FJ against Norvegian bycicle inf. They have to be killed one by one, just like any other infantry type.

ORIGINAL: SiG

ORIGINAL: JediMessiah

havent played with them for awhile, but i believe bicycle troops can be destroyed like a vehicle, 1 shot 1 kill...weird


-jedi

Not true. I remember having to fight with German FJ against Norvegian bycicle inf. They have to be killed one by one, just like any other infantry type.

But they can be immobilzed...I shot a Finnish Bicycle unit in a PBEM game once with a T34, and 'disabled' its suspension. For the rest of the game, it sat, in the woods, facing the same direction, incapable of firing outside its frontal arc. I passed it by, laughing.

Ski Troops don't assault vehicles but instead 'fire' satchel charges onto vehicle. Their overall effectiveness in tank hunting is not necessarily any worse than that of regular infantry.

The Bicycle infantry is luckily very rare in SPWAW 8.4. They are very hard to hit but they get sometimes destroyed by single mortar hit on the top. As a personal opinion, the bicycles are badly designed in the game. Luckily only few countries use them.

On unit-class attributes: I asked Mike Wood if he had a document that listed these. He doesn't. He would have to go thru the entire code to create one, so it isn't forthcoming.

As far as ski troops are concerned, I would agree that it's common sense that they can't close assault -- they would be tossing satchel charges, yes, but I don't think they would take the time to dismount from their skis in order to clamber on top on an enemy AFV.

There were some changes after 8.4, but they are not publically available yet -- as far as testing 8.401 is concerned, the testers have no complaints (that would be me & Alby).

The public release will incorporate further changes, which Michael is still working out. The new mech.exe will probably be called 8.5. Time frame for release is unknown.

Ski troops did not fight from their skis... That would have been suicide. They used the skis as transport, the same as bicycle troops did.



Goblin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Ski troops did not fight from their skis... That would have been suicide. They used the skis as transport, the same as bicycle troops did.



Goblin

Oh, yeah? Check this out:

OriginsThe original Elverumske Skieløber Compagnie was first established in 1747, one of three companies (the Elverumske, the Hofske, and the Åmotske) that formed the Sønnenfjellske batallion of skiborn troops. A 3-company Nordenfjellske ski batallion (consisting of the Holtålske, Snåsenske, and Merårkerske companies) was formed at the same time. The men of the ski batallions were trained and organized as light-infantry soldiers, and were mainly employed on reconaissance and patrol duties. With the coming of the winter snows, however, ski-trained troops acquired great mobility and could, in some respects, function as light cavalry. The men were all conscripts, and remained on the Army List for a period of nine years. After basic recruit training, they were required to report for 12 days' service each year. The company could be speedily mobilised in the event of war. Defeat in 1814 saw the break-up of Denmark-Norway, and the union of Norway with Sweden. After 1814, the new military command considered the ski companies to be of minor importance, and they were disbanded in the period from 1818 to 1826.


(Note: son of a gun -- the pictures didn't print, but these specifically showed the riflemen firing while mounted . Take my word for it -- this IS how they fought.)

Contemporary Drawing by J. Senn ca.1811: "A norwegian ski soldier".

Grüner's plate no. II, how to form a firing line.



This tactic was established in the 19th century, so there you go. [:D]

I think some did fight from their skis but not with great sucess

My uncle had a small book on the winter war which i borrowed many years back. It had some commentary by Finnish soldiers on Russian ski troops. I'm pretty sure it said you could tell Russian troops because they would sometimes fight while still on their skis (with terrible results) and would then take their skis off too run away on foot. Sounds like they got it all wrong and apparently their skis were not very good either. Finns considered captured soviet skis were of such poor quality as to only be useful as firewood.

It does sound a lot like the russians (in the above scenario) were probably being ambushed or caught by surprise so maybe the Finns paint a biased picture though. Either way fighting while sking must have been very difficult and risky (not to mention foolish and ultimately an unpopular tactic).

Soviet Ski Brigade was destroyed at Kuhmo in 1940 while it attempted to relieve trapped troops from Finnish pincers. A Siberian Ski Brigade shared same fate in January 1942 as it attempted to hit Finnish flank at Karhumäki by skiing over the frozen Onega Lake.

Glenn, did you just post 19th century tactics for troops on skis to prove that 20th century ski troops fought on skis?[&:]

It was done, for sure. It was not typical. Hard to seek cover and get up and down quickly when facing machineguns. Great for moving troops, crappy for fighting in (unless you are using muskets and standing up to be shot in line anyways, that is....)



Goblin

Many people don't believe it to be true that you can actually fight on skis. It is told that when a Finn returned from the winter war first thing he did at home was his wife and after that he took off the skis.

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo

Many people don't believe it to be true that you can actually fight on skis. It is told that when a Finn returned from the winter war first thing he did at home was his wife and after that he took off the skis.

Honestly, I really didn't believe it either until I did a Google search. To Goblin -- that was why I posted that drawing. Now I have absolutely NO doubt that the Finns are some of the toughest troops in the entire OOB set. [&o]