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The problem with the theory that Japan has enough oil with only Palembang and a few others is it fails to take into account future production needs. The Japanese seriously expanded their production from 1942 to 1944 in order to keep up with the Allies increased production. Here are some statistics from a study that some one just linked to in another thread:

* Japanese production of aircraft of all types rose from an average of 642 planes per month during the first 9 months of the war to a peak of 2,572 planes per month in September 1944.

* The Japanese were thus able to increase the numerical strength of their air forces in planes, in almost every month of the war. Numerical strength increased from 2,625 tactical planes at the outbreak of the war to 5,000 tactical planes, plus 5,400 Kamikaze planes, at the time of surrender.

* Japan began the war with 381 warships aggregating approximately 1,271,000 tons. An additional 816 combat ships totaling 1,048,000 tons were constructed during the war.

* Japan entered the war with some 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping of over 500 tons gross weight. During the war an additional 4,100,000 tons were constructed, captured or requisitioned.

* The Japanese built up their army ground forces from a strength of approximately 1,700,000 at the outbreak of war, to a peak strength of approximately 5,000,000.

http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm#dotjf

You might be right there. I'm only speaking from experience that is at this time limited to 11/42. While I am shipping oil from other sources, I just noted that Palembang is generating so much oil i litterally cant ship it out fast enough. Within a couple weeks it tops 100,000 oil. I'd say at this point i've imported over 300,000 oil from this one source alone. It is undamaged however. Other games I've played as Japan have not been so lucky.

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

The problem with the theory that Japan has enough oil with only Palembang and a few others is it fails to take into account future production needs. The Japanese seriously expanded their production from 1942 to 1944 in order to keep up with the Allies increased production. Here are some statistics from a study that some one just linked to in another thread:

Allow me to break this down in game terms:

* Japanese production of aircraft of all types rose from an average of 642 planes per month during the first 9 months of the war to a peak of 2,572 planes per month in September 1944.

Dozens of R&D plants already created and going to be "repaired" and made operational during the game. Obsolete plants automatically upgraded to newer types without needing repair. Older types remain in pool (if you keep 1 airgroup eqipped with the type) for kamikaze use if you wish.

* The Japanese were thus able to increase the numerical strength of their air forces in planes, in almost every month of the war. Numerical strength increased from 2,625 tactical planes at the outbreak of the war to 5,000 tactical planes, plus 5,400 Kamikaze planes, at the time of surrender.

Time and time again people are whining because of the number of Jap planes available.

* Japan began the war with 381 warships aggregating approximately 1,271,000 tons. An additional 816 combat ships totaling 1,048,000 tons were constructed during the war.

Most of this tonnage was already under construction at the start of the war (Yamato class x 3, Junyo, ect). They started a number of CVs later that would never make it into the war, and even if they had, there would have been no trained pilots for them. In game terms, no effect on production.

* Japan entered the war with some 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping of over 500 tons gross weight. During the war an additional 4,100,000 tons were constructed, captured or requisitioned.

Ive never had to expand my merchant shipyards to produce the AKs, et al. Again, in game terms, a non-issue.

* The Japanese built up their army ground forces from a strength of approximately 1,700,000 at the outbreak of war, to a peak strength of approximately 5,000,000.

This is manpower, not oil. Yes, some HI is used for it also, but the bulk is manpower. And again, in game terms a non-issue.

In short, Jap economy doesnt need to be expanded much beyond what it starts the game with to produce everything in the game. You have to remember, the game isnt history. You dont have near the "real" operational losses in the game they had in real world, so if you have "real" production you going to have a major glut of aircraft. As for shipbuilding, they Japs changed their building priorities all the time. At the start of the war ASW ships were number 9 on their list, but the end of the war it was up to number 2 (CVs were always number 1).

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

* Japanese production of aircraft of all types rose from an average of 642 planes per month during the first 9 months of the war to a peak of 2,572 planes per month in September 1944.

Dozens of R&D plants already created and going to be "repaired" and made operational during the game. Obsolete plants automatically upgraded to newer types without needing repair. Older types remain in pool (if you keep 1 airgroup eqipped with the type) for kamikaze use if you wish.

If the game follows close to history, you will be producing 4X the number of engine and air frames in September 1944 than in the average month of early to mid 1942. To create these additioinal engines and air frames, you need additional heavy industry. So this means a much higher monthly heavy industry usage by the middle of 1944.

* The Japanese were thus able to increase the numerical strength of their air forces in planes, in almost every month of the war. Numerical strength increased from 2,625 tactical planes at the outbreak of the war to 5,000 tactical planes, plus 5,400 Kamikaze planes, at the time of surrender.

Time and time again people are whining because of the number of Jap planes available.

The Japanese had a lot of aircraft, I don't think they should whine about this.

* Japan began the war with 381 warships aggregating approximately 1,271,000 tons. An additional 816 combat ships totaling 1,048,000 tons were constructed during the war.

Most of this tonnage was already under construction at the start of the war (Yamato class x 3, Junyo, ect). They started a number of CVs later that would never make it into the war, and even if they had, there would have been no trained pilots for them. In game terms, no effect on production.

I think you are right about that. Though if you want to actually build the Shinano or speed along for example a big batch of subs and destroyers, you might need some increased naval production. Most Japanese players will turn off the Shinano however and this saves them a good deal of naval production points.

* Japan entered the war with some 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping of over 500 tons gross weight. During the war an additional 4,100,000 tons were constructed, captured or requisitioned.

Ive never had to expand my merchant shipyards to produce the AKs, et al. Again, in game terms, a non-issue.

How far have you gone? Hopefully the Allied subs can actually do more damage in 1943 and 1944 than they usually have in WiTP games.

* The Japanese built up their army ground forces from a strength of approximately 1,700,000 at the outbreak of war, to a peak strength of approximately 5,000,000.

This is manpower, not oil. Yes, some HI is used for it also, but the bulk is manpower. And again, in game terms a non-issue.

You also have to build armaments and vehicles to fill out all the new units and repair old ones. This takes a lot of heavy industry (6 HI points for each armament or vehicle point). Also don't discount the fact that you have 3X the mouths to feed. That takes a lot of supply and heavy industry production is a big source of supply.

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

How far have you gone? Hopefully the Allied subs can actually do more damage in 1943 and 1944 than they usually have in WiTP games.

Against the AI I win begininng of '43 (autovicory). I am currently in Aug '42 in one of my E mail games. I think the new ASW rules comming in 1.7 might go a long way to putting some punch back into subs.

You also have to build armaments and vehicles to fill out all the new units and repair old ones. This takes a lot of heavy industry (6 HI points for each armament or vehicle point). Also don't discount the fact that you have 3X the mouths to feed. That takes a lot of supply and heavy industry production is a big source of supply.

Yes, I expand armaments a little (30 points or so). The big thing about aircraft is managing what you have. I turn off a lot of aircraft production to save points. Nates for example. I shut them off, but leave the factories (so they will upgrade). I dont build 500 Zero factories. Never had a need for them. I dont put cannon-fodder into the line. Every pilot assignment has to be approved by surpreme headquarters [:)]

* Japan entered the war with some 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping of over 500 tons gross weight. During the war an additional 4,100,000 tons were constructed, captured or requisitioned.

Ive never had to expand my merchant shipyards to produce the AKs, et al. Again, in game terms, a non-issue.

IJ starts the war with capacity to create 1000 merchant shipbuilding points (MSP) per turn. On GT1 your MSP consumption is c.520; that is without any accelerations or AK conversions. During January 1943, daily consumption passes 1000; by the end of 1943, your merchant shipbuilding program will consume over 2600 MSP per day (again, no acceleration or conversions included). Well, actually, it won't; what will happen instead is that your big TKs and APs will halt construction.

Check out this thread concerning merchant shipbuilding.

ORIGINAL: Feinder

From you Japanese fanboys who managed to stick out a game, into say mid-1943...

Just how important is Production/Oil for you?

Bear with me on the "stupid question" perception. I'm asking, because I've always been an advocate of a very aggressive stategic bombing campaign, especially against Oil. Demolish or Bomb anything in the SRA and Burma that you possibly can. No oil means Heavy Industry chokes. Wonderful.

At least in theory. I've never gotten a game into 1943. While I have made every effort to prosecute Oil centers to greatest degree of pain (some games EXTREMELY successfully), I'm just curious if it -REALLY- does any good.

It sounds like it should be "well duh, yes!". But I've never had a game roll into where I actually see any shortages. I don't necessarily think my esteemed opponents SHOULD be seeing shortages (again, the games aren't even 1943 yet).

Serioualy tho. Folks talk about plenty of Japanese airframes (and lack of pilots). But part of the point of the strat bombing campaign is to limit heavy industry thus slowing or halting ship production and limiting the number of airframes produced. But frankly, I can kill enemy pilots without the pain of going after Oil and Heavy Industry centers.

I'm just asking, because I'd like to know if bombing an oil field is REALLY worth it. If I send B-17s over an oil field, it's HEAVILY defended by both Flak and fighters. If I get 5 oil hits, hurray for me. But I can just as easily bomb a airfield, get far more hits onsupply depots (and burning more supply to repair the place), and even kill some pilots on the ground.

Feedback?
-F-

I guess I shouldn't anwer this since I don't consider myself to be a JFB ... even though thus far of the 2000+ PBEM turns I've played all but 50 of them have been as Japanese ... but .. I do have 2 games that have now reached the mid-1943 stage ...

Oil and resources and HI are all critical .. and all are within bombing range from the Allies for the entire game.

I'll talk about one game in particular. This game is now late April 43 ... I hold all of SRA though we are now fighting for Timor. I have been able to maintain about 1.2 or higher ( currently 1.3 million ) oil points on the "industry" screen and about 1.1 million resource points. This has remained true for most of the game.

He who defends everything defends nothing. The "outlying" centers ( like Amboina and to the east of there ) I left undefended and those have long been pounded down to zero. I did put the first 2 Tony units at Kendari ( way back in Aug 42 ) and they are still there keeping the resources flowing.

Summatra, Java, Bornea and Malaya are the primary SRA producers. And about 3 large convoys are regularly moving these items back to Japan. And these areas have been out of range of 4EB except for the very early period while they were being captured.

Due to a number of factors, I was never able to capture Burma and this has left Bankok and Hanoi within range. Up until about Feb 43 .. I was able to defend these by basing most of my good fighters accordingly .. but in Feb 43 .. about 150 P38s and another 150 4EB have finally beat down Bankok fighter defense and in the subsequent months both Bankok and Hanoi have lost most of there HI and resources. After Unryu and Amagi completed acccelerated finish ... I started cutting back my naval building ( got it up to 1600 ) .. and this has restabilized HI reserve at 470k ... reserve started dropping after loss of Bankok and Hanoi ... had been 520k tops.

All TK are employed moving oil ... so the good news is there is still enough oil to keep them busy. I think I have lost about 2-3 TK ... and I have accelerated all TK that are more than 1 year out ( and I keep adjusting this turning the ones inside one year off acceleration.

I use AK to move fuel to CENPAC.

My opponent has done everything possible to bomb ever HI, resource or OIL point from the very start of the game ... and this has at least prevented my from building up reserves of OIL and resources any higher than mentioned above ... and it has limited overall expansion of production. Air production is running about 1800 per month ( not counting research ) ... Naval was 1600 now cut back to about 1400 ... Merchant is at 1200. I have shut down most aramants plants as the reserve there has remained 15000+ ...

If I was the allies I would bomb every thing I could reach ... as my opponent has done in this game. It is a delayed gratification activity .. but it is still very strategically sound.

One issue we wrestled with was China. Though overall China was pretty much stalemated ( I did take the northern part early on due to an early mistake on my opponents part ) .. it is critical for Japanese training and it offers strategic targets for the Allies. However, we wound up negotiating the stalemate as fixed ... and allowing Japanese training ( with some restrictions ) and prohibiting the Allies from massing strategic airpower in China. In an unfetted game - the ability to bomb HI, Resources in China and from China would be a strategic magnet of the first order - not to mention ability to shut down Japanese training. So China is probably the key to the game as far as I can see. Unfortunately with the ground system being as weak as it is, this causes problems - but - you weren't asking about China - so I'll stop talking about it.

Bombing the Oil, resources and HI within range is a good idea for the allies, based on the games I'm playing. And you won't see shortages if the Japanese player manages things well ... but there will be less than there couldn't been. In my case less ships early on ... less DDs early on ... less TK early on mostly. But I still have no supply or fuel shortage and never have had. And I have cranked up production of ships and planes and now even built some more HI in the Home Islands to partially offset losses at Bangkok and Hanoi.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

I hate palembang -and all the rest[:@]

as a jap player capturing it - palembang it was a crater -nil, zip, nardo production of anything.
the other places were not much better.

The number of enemy engineers determines if a base get blasted when you capture it. As long as you dont enter the hex, the allies cant stop the production, so the Dutchies are dutifully stacking the oil and resources for you as long as you dont enter the hex.

Take out Java before you take any of the major oil centers. You have ample oil to last 4-6 months without sending 1 drop home, so dont worry about speed of capture. Remember, the Dutch are stacking it for you.

Bombard an oil base for a minimum of 3 days before you attack it with a BB bombardment group. More is better. Use lots. Having a ton of arty in the hex also helps. The goal here is to disrupt allied engineer units. If they are disrupted, they dont blow things up.

Hope that helps.

Edit: dont be afraid to use an airplane or two either. More is better.

As the Allied in the above description, there were so many engineers in Palembang it didn't really matter; not only were there the Dutchmen there, but English refugee base units and I had shipped every Dutch LCU with sapper squads in it that I could there.

He DID bombard me; not for 3 days, but more like 2 weeks. AF and port and bombardment from land units in hex. The secret (I like to think) was not only the concentration, but the sapper squads. As they are embedded in a unit, they are very difficult to affect with any combat other than del. or shock attacks.

As to the other locations, only Surabaya had anything like the damage that Palambang had, mainly due to the fact that the other bases were stripped of engineers and that we fought over Surabaya for months.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

How far have you gone? Hopefully the Allied subs can actually do more damage in 1943 and 1944 than they usually have in WiTP games.

Against the AI I win begininng of '43 (autovicory). I am currently in Aug '42 in one of my E mail games. I think the new ASW rules comming in 1.7 might go a long way to putting some punch back into subs.

You also have to build armaments and vehicles to fill out all the new units and repair old ones. This takes a lot of heavy industry (6 HI points for each armament or vehicle point). Also don't discount the fact that you have 3X the mouths to feed. That takes a lot of supply and heavy industry production is a big source of supply.

Yes, I expand armaments a little (30 points or so). The big thing about aircraft is managing what you have. I turn off a lot of aircraft production to save points. Nates for example. I shut them off, but leave the factories (so they will upgrade). I dont build 500 Zero factories. Never had a need for them. I dont put cannon-fodder into the line. Every pilot assignment has to be approved by surpreme headquarters [:)]

You will be needing a LOT of armament points stored for the big reinforcement day in the middle of 1943. You get 5-6 divisions + 2 brigades + 5 smaller 99 AP units in one DAY. A week or two later a smaller batch arrives. This IS going to put a strain on your armaments, and I personally wouldn't like those precious forces to arrive at 30% strength, or only the chinese and Kwantung divisions to arrive at full strentgh and the unrestricted units to come at 30%.

Same goes with A6M5 Zekes. You WILL need a lot of production to replace all those old zeroes quickly, and there will be a lot of new units coming in a surprisingly short amount of time. You'd want them all filled out within 1943 when decent pilots with 60~ exp are still available for IJNAF.

One thing to consider is that, if you keep your losses down, you might really not need all of those merchant ships, so turning off some naval yards which are a BIG HI hog can be useful. You have to store a lot of HI before late 43 or 44 when the allies will start to interdict your oil supplies. With 14k+ HI you won't be gathering much oil reserves, most of your onmap production (unless you invade russia and similar places) will be eaten up by your HI.

With player defined upgrades on, try to concentrate on single engined fighters. While the Dinah fighter version is decent, has good range and excellent speed, it does take two engines, which means a lot of HI. Same goes for japanese level bombers. Try to keep their losses and production down.

I am already running very close to my HI limit, I've turned off some of my merchant yards, and I've actually expanded my HI. I'm still not satisfied with my AC production though. Current production is OK but the projected losses increases for late 43 and early 44 are is not.

I've been bringing 90% of my supplies from China, Kwantung and SRA. I can't remember when I last sent a major supply convoy from Home islands... such is the price of expansion.

ORIGINAL: tabpub

He DID bombard me; not for 3 days, but more like 2 weeks. AF and port and bombardment from land units in hex. The secret (I like to think) was not only the concentration, but the sapper squads. As they are embedded in a unit, they are very difficult to affect with any combat other than del. or shock attacks.

Well I dont know the situation of course, but as I said earlier, it is the most important hex the Japs have and if he didnt take care to prevent you from building it up (the Japs can indeed make it difficult to remove troops from Malaya if they want) there isnt much I can say. I can say you wouldnt do it against me

Not in significant numbers anyway.

ORIGINAL: String

You will be needing a LOT of armament points stored for the big reinforcement day in the middle of 1943. You get 5-6 divisions + 2 brigades + 5 smaller 99 AP units in one DAY. A week or two later a smaller batch arrives. This IS going to put a strain on your armaments, and I personally wouldn't like those precious forces to arrive at 30% strength, or only the chinese and Kwantung divisions to arrive at full strentgh and the unrestricted units to come at 30%.

I dont reinforce my army much. Key base units get reinforcements mainly to upgrade their shore guns. Units under 50% strength if they are a critical unit will get reinforcements, but generally I keep it off. I keep tight control on how many of what engines I am making. And especially how many of what type of aircraft I produce. Now granted, I havent made it to '43 against a live player as yet. Time will tell Im guessing.

Same goes with A6M5 Zekes. You WILL need a lot of production to replace all those old zeroes quickly, and there will be a lot of new units coming in a surprisingly short amount of time. You'd want them all filled out within 1943 when decent pilots with 60~ exp are still available for IJNAF.

A6M2 factories upgrade to A6M3a's automatically yes? A6M3a's upgrade to A6M5s? This is plently for my needs.

The Jack is a better plane for the land based forces. Faster, longer range, more durability, more firepower, better climb rate, it has a bomb load, and most importantly, available 6 months earlier. It has 1 less point of manueverability, and less max altitude by 300 some feet (both are over 38,000 feet so I dont consider that a minus). I only put A6M5s on my carriers so making large numbers of them quickly isnt that big a deal. And I commit 100 R&D points to Jacks on turn 1 (granted it takes a while for these to come online) which means the Jack should come on-line sooner than 3/43 as well.

One thing to consider is that, if you keep your losses down, you might really not need all of those merchant ships, so turning off some naval yards which are a BIG HI hog can be useful.

You are 100% correct.

With player defined upgrades on, try to concentrate on single engined fighters. While the Dinah fighter version is decent, has good range and excellent speed, it does take two engines, which means a lot of HI. Same goes for japanese level bombers. Try to keep their losses and production down.

100% disagree on this. Ki-84 Frank is much better than the Dinah KAI, and the Dinah has one feature that would prevent me from building it to begin with. No armor for the pilot. Jap 1 engine bombers arent durable enough or long ranged enough to make them useful.

Different people are going to use different methods. You have to do what works for you.

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

* Japan entered the war with some 6,000,000 tons of merchant shipping of over 500 tons gross weight. During the war an additional 4,100,000 tons were constructed, captured or requisitioned.

Ive never had to expand my merchant shipyards to produce the AKs, et al. Again, in game terms, a non-issue.

IJ starts the war with capacity to create 1000 merchant shipbuilding points (MSP) per turn. On GT1 your MSP consumption is c.520; that is without any accelerations or AK conversions. During January 1943, daily consumption passes 1000; by the end of 1943, your merchant shipbuilding program will consume over 2600 MSP per day (again, no acceleration or conversions included). Well, actually, it won't; what will happen instead is that your big TKs and APs will halt construction.

Check out this thread concerning merchant shipbuilding.

Well as I said, never made it to late war period, but a couple of working theories I am going by:

Japs didnt use convoy system until late in '44. They also didnt put many resources into ASW before then either. This allowed their merchant fleet to be decimated. They increased the production of merchs late in the war to try to make up the losses. So:

1) If I keep my merch losses well below historical levels (which isnt hard to do) then I wont need this late-war influx of new merchants.

2) Same with late war influx of ASW forces. I wont need these additional sub killers, or at least not as quickly. This will save me some production in this area.

I, like so many others, prosicute subs at every turn. I dont use 25 ship ASW fleets, but I have somewhere around 30 4 to 6 ship ASW TFs stationed all over, and when I get a sub contact, I fly 2 or 3 groups of sub killer AC and 3 or 4 of these sub hunter groups to the area.

Thats my working theroy at any rate.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: String

You will be needing a LOT of armament points stored for the big reinforcement day in the middle of 1943. You get 5-6 divisions + 2 brigades + 5 smaller 99 AP units in one DAY. A week or two later a smaller batch arrives. This IS going to put a strain on your armaments, and I personally wouldn't like those precious forces to arrive at 30% strength, or only the chinese and Kwantung divisions to arrive at full strentgh and the unrestricted units to come at 30%.

I dont reinforce my army much. Key base units get reinforcements mainly to upgrade their shore guns. Units under 50% strength if they are a critical unit will get reinforcements, but generally I keep it off. I keep tight control on how many of what engines I am making. And especially how many of what type of aircraft I produce. Now granted, I havent made it to '43 against a live player as yet. Time will tell Im guessing.

You will be sorely needing those units in '43. And considering the amount of them arriving at the same time you will have all of them at 33% if you don't gather any armament points. And that my dear friend means that you can't keep up a decent garrison level all over the empire, you'd have to concentrate on just one area, which leaves .. well you know

Same goes with A6M5 Zekes. You WILL need a lot of production to replace all those old zeroes quickly, and there will be a lot of new units coming in a surprisingly short amount of time. You'd want them all filled out within 1943 when decent pilots with 60~ exp are still available for IJNAF.

A6M2 factories upgrade to A6M3a's automatically yes? A6M3a's upgrade to A6M5s? This is plently for my needs.

The Jack is a better plane for the land based forces. Faster, longer range, more durability, more firepower, better climb rate, it has a bomb load, and most importantly, available 6 months earlier. It has 1 less point of manueverability, and less max altitude by 300 some feet (both are over 38,000 feet so I dont consider that a minus). I only put A6M5s on my carriers so making large numbers of them quickly isnt that big a deal. And I commit 100 R&D points to Jacks on turn 1 (granted it takes a while for these to come online) which means the Jack should come on-line sooner than 3/43 as well.

How much do you have in A6M2 production right now? Japan begins with 120 i think. Consider that you have to first upgrade all of your carrier based fighters, which is over 200 planes (provided you didn't lose some). This is almost two months just for upgrades, and this doesn't cover the day to day losses. Ofcourse if you have PDU on then it doesn't matter much. Oh and 100 R&D will almost 100% give no reduction.. I had over 200 points for Oscar II's and didn't advance a single month, I'd say a fair bet is over 300 points and if you are going to upgrade your IJN zeroes to jacks then all of those 300 factories will be in full swing upgrading your air groups for 2-3 months atleast.

Oh, and how much range DOES the Jack have? IIRC from the 45 scenario tests then it is just 4 hexes at extended range, which is too small for my liking. Or was it George?

With player defined upgrades on, try to concentrate on single engined fighters. While the Dinah fighter version is decent, has good range and excellent speed, it does take two engines, which means a lot of HI. Same goes for japanese level bombers. Try to keep their losses and production down.

100% disagree on this. Ki-84 Frank is much better than the Dinah KAI, and the Dinah has one feature that would prevent me from building it to begin with. No armor for the pilot. Jap 1 engine bombers arent durable enough or long ranged enough to make them useful.

Different people are going to use different methods. You have to do what works for you.

Hmm.. I said Dinah isn't a good fighter plane.. and then you 100% disagree with me and state that Dinah sucks .. [:'(] Seems like a small misunderstanding.


edit: Aaanyway .. I did some calculations and found out that the production of my 1671 planes takes a whopping total of 1385 HI per day. That's only 50% more than my vehicle assembly cost of 1038 per day. (I turned off most of them for now) Which means that aircraft production takes less than 10% of my HI. Biggest hog is armament factories, which I heavily expanded, resulting in a reserve of 180k armament points, and which uses a bit over 5k HI per turn. I turned off quite a few factories after I did the survey though, reducing the HI need by 1800. After that come the Naval ship yards with 3600+ HI and merchant shipyards at 3k HI. I haven't expanded any of them

I have a little over 14600 HI while daily requierments at full production are 15418 HI. I have turned off my most of my vehicle factories and some of my armament assembly resulting in a requierment of just 12832 HI per turn, giving me approx 1800 HI bonus per turn which makes for an almost 650k large reserve within a year. Given that I'm already in late april 1943 then i'd say that That's the maximum reserve that I can gather anyway.

At current levels it would last about 50 days when all HI production would be shut off

ORIGINAL: String

You will be sorely needing those units in '43. And considering the amount of them arriving at the same time you will have all of them at 33% if you don't gather any armament points. And that my dear friend means that you can't keep up a decent garrison level all over the empire, you'd have to concentrate on just one area, which leaves .. well you know

Well all the armaments that I am not using in '42 goes to the pool for '43 reinforcements. I have come to the understanding that land units alone wont stop an attack. Leader skill, supplies, support, fort level are all as much if not more important than the strength of the unit. As you say, I would rather have full strength reinforcements than units at 25%. The best way to do this is to starve your non-critical units of replacements.

How much do you have in A6M2 production right now? Japan begins with 120 i think. Consider that you have to first upgrade all of your carrier based fighters, which is over 200 planes (provided you didn't lose some). This is almost two months just for upgrades, and this doesn't cover the day to day losses. Ofcourse if you have PDU on then it doesn't matter much. Oh and 100 R&D will almost 100% give no reduction.. I had over 200 points for Oscar II's and didn't advance a single month, I'd say a fair bet is over 300 points and if you are going to upgrade your IJN zeroes to jacks then all of those 300 factories will be in full swing upgrading your air groups for 2-3 months atleast.

The only expansion I make at all of Zeros is I convert the Claude factory. I think this gives 4 more points to the Zero.

Edit. I do convert the Zero R&D factories to M2.s on turn 1.

Edit 2: I have all my Claudes converted to Zeros by the end of March 42.

Oh, and how much range DOES the Jack have? IIRC from the 45 scenario tests then it is just 4 hexes at extended range, which is too small for my liking. Or was it George?

A6M5 is 310 endurance (4 hexs). Jack is 320 (4 hexes). Same in game range. No reason in the world to equip land navy figther groups with Zeros. I keep a few A6M2 groups around for their 11 hex range for escort duty, and I will put A6M5s on the carriers. And of course the M8 will be incredible when its available, but really, these are the only Zeros I make. And truth be told, the only reason I would make the M5 is I cant put Jacks on the carriers.

Why wouldnt you use PDUs? Of the 5 games I have right now, only 1 isnt using PDUs and in that one I am allied [:'(]

One thing to remember String is that you can produce all the HI, armaments, ect in the world, but your limiting factor is manpower. This cant be expanded. It does no good to produce more armaments than your manpower can sustain.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: String

You will be sorely needing those units in '43. And considering the amount of them arriving at the same time you will have all of them at 33% if you don't gather any armament points. And that my dear friend means that you can't keep up a decent garrison level all over the empire, you'd have to concentrate on just one area, which leaves .. well you know

Well all the armaments that I am not using in '42 goes to the pool for '43 reinforcements. I have come to the understanding that land units alone wont stop an attack. Leader skill, supplies, support, fort level are all as much if not more important than the strength of the unit. As you say, I would rather have full strength reinforcements than units at 25%. The best way to do this is to starve your non-critical units of replacements.

true true.. I have a feeling that I over expanded my armament factories, but we shall see after the reinforcement week how much points it took to bring all those units online.

Oh, and how much range DOES the Jack have? IIRC from the 45 scenario tests then it is just 4 hexes at extended range, which is too small for my liking. Or was it George?

A6M5 is 310 endurance (4 hexs). Jack is 320 (4 hexes). Same in game range. No reason in the world to equip land navy figther groups with Zeros. I keep a few A6M2 groups around for their 11 hex range for escort duty, and I will put A6M5s on the carriers. And of course the M8 will be incredible when its available, but really, these are the only Zeros I make. And truth be told, the only reason I would make the M5 is I cant put Jacks on the carriers.

Why wouldnt you use PDUs? Of the 5 games I have right now, only 1 isnt using PDUs and in that one I am allied [:'(]

You are looking at the A6M5c which indeed has a max range of 4, it's the fighterbomber version of the Zeke. The one that carriers use and which all groups upgrade to is however A6M5 .. without the c. It has a max range of 6 hexes. 6 Hexes is the range one should seek for their main fighters as it's 6 hexes that a ship TF can move at most. The rest is obvious.

And I'm not using PDU as I don't like it much, turns the game out of whack imo. Besides, 2 of my 3 games started in pre 1.6 versions [:D]

String & Yamato hugger:

Kudos to both of you [&o][&o]

This particular dialogue has been highly informative and has raised some points that I need to explore further. It is also an excellent example of the power of creative disagreement. [:D] Keep up the good work

ORIGINAL: String

You are looking at the A6M5c which indeed has a max range of 4, it's the fighterbomber version of the Zeke. The one that carriers use and which all groups upgrade to is however A6M5 .. without the c. It has a max range of 6 hexes. 6 Hexes is the range one should seek for their main fighters as it's 6 hexes that a ship TF can move at most. The rest is obvious.

And I'm not using PDU as I don't like it much, turns the game out of whack imo. Besides, 2 of my 3 games started in pre 1.6 versions [:D]

The endurance of the M5c is 200. The endurance of the M5 is 310. The endurance of the Jack is 320. I guess this would make both the Jack and the M5 6 hexes, my error.

My thought on PDUs is this: I control what engine a given factory is making. I control what bases get supplies. I control what bases have torpedos for submarines. I control what squadron gets this one single pilot. I can even control if this squadron upgrades from its Claudes to Zeros.

Why shouldnt I be able to control if that squadron equips Zeros, or Jacks? I have god like control over everything else, why not this also?

Now allied production I can understand why they kept it out of player hands. There is much more to American politics of this era than Japanese. There is the war in europe, and the politics of the Senate and House as well. Look at the P-51. Almost wasnt produced at all because of politics.

Now I agree that the theatre commander should be able to decide if a squadron is equipped with P-40s or P-39s as long as he has the resources at his disposal, but he doesnt make the decision as to what gets shipped to him.

Edit: The M5c does make a very good point defence aircraft, and its worthwhile to make a few of these. 20 point cannon rating should be very good vs 4E bombers.

Then indeed, Jack is better. BUT.. i'd still leave atleast 2-3 landbased groups as Zekes.

1. For training purposes in china. When your CV airgroups suffer heavy losses it's easy to disband said training groups to bring up strength
2. For use on CVE's in case you need some extra cap.
3. I'm sure there is a third good reason [:'(]

About the PDU. Imho it gives the japs too big an advantage. If I had PDU on in my game vs Andy.. well, those 1000 oscars would be 1000 Tonies and I do think that he wouldn't bother much after that, corsairs or not. High exp Tonies can take on Corsairs.

But that's just my personal opionion. A matter of taste I guess and not really something to be discussed in this thread anyway.

Well lets face it. Against a competent allied player, I dont believe the Japs have a chance of actually winning the game. So why not at least make it a challange and fun to play? I think this does that. And yes, of course you have to have a few groups training replacements.