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This is a very interesting thread. I enjoyed reading the various tactics used. Gump asked about some real-life tactics. Here's one which maybe somebody can elucidate on.

Ref: August 1944 by Robert A Miller isbn: 0-89141-594-7 page 240.
"A measure of Clarke's [Col. Bruce Clarke] aggressiveness had been demonstrated several days before [before August 30] when CCA [Combat Command A] approached the town of Troyes on the Seine. To his surprise, he found the town strongly defended. At first glance, a frontal assault looked suicidal. However, recalling his training in desert-style warfare, Clarke spread his tanks across a wide front facing the German defenses and made a mad dash for the town. Hurdling the tank ditches and brushing aside other anti-tank defenses, Clarke's tanks overwhelmed the German defenses by the speed of their attack and took the city in a matter of hours."

This, by the way, was the same Clarke who did not believe in any Sherman tank inferiority to the Panther.
Of course, this narrative paints a picture in one broad brush stroke. There is no detail of any supporting artillery fire or of any infantry involvement, although we might assume that there was. And the phrase 'heavily defended' offers no idea of the nature of the defense.

This might provide another challenge for the scenario designers out there if somebody can dig up the details of this action. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Major Destruction ]</p>

I'm a big fan of the "creeping barrage" approach. The Brits seemed to have it down to a science. Just pound the snot out of the hill with arty, and get your infantry in there on it's coattails. I'd say three- to four turns of HE should do the trick. The infantry should probably have some Bazookas, M1s or M9s depending on the year, so up close to the hopefully suppressed Panther and PZiV, should be no problem. Just have to accept some losses to your infantry from the gerries, and your arty. Your tanks can follow behind a hex or two, and jump in after the inf has taken their shots, to mop up. The infantry wear the scars and the armour wear the stars.

ok, interesting thread indeed <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

But as a german commander I would get hell out of that hill when shells start to fall. Barrage is visitcard for Bigger enemy approach, -Btn sized I would say. So why waste two valuable tanks and platoon for fight that can't be won. I would retreta hill and start sniping with Panther, also I would use infantry to spot tartgets and Panzer against infantry that arrives thru the smoke to empty hill.

Do it pbem -style <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

msoh

There is one battlefield strength the US Army had but, to my understanding, rarely employed - almost modern maneuver capability.

Take a good look at an Armored Cavalry company - select M8 Wolfhound heavy armored cars and Hellcat tank destroyers; add a few M20+ scout baz teams for recon, a pair of M4 81mm SP mortars, a pair of M15A1 or M16 SPAAAs*, and a platoon of mechanized infantry. At first glance this seems too lightweight a force to deal with heavy german armor or fortified positions, but realize that the *slowest* vehicles in the force have movement 38...

Rather than use the M4 SPMs as artillery pieces, use them as mainly as direct fire smoke units. Never allow your units to fire too many shots per turn as this will run them out of movement points, given the low armor values - the only defense you have really have is mobility. Use smoke to isolate enemy units, artillery to surpress, high speed M8's at long range to harrass and draw fire, and then kill with either the SP AAA's vs infantry or the Hellcats vs armor.

Historically I believe such units existed however whether or not they employed the suggested tactics or were used merely for fast response/rear area security forces I'm not sure. I do know that using such a force in the game is one heck of a lot of fun as well as being very challenging.

*Note: one thing I've been wanting to try with this mix is the quad .50 cal AAA jeep - with the higher movement allowance it raises your force minimum speed to 40 and the minimum speed of your direct firing attack units to 50+. The main drawback of using the M15A1 or M16 SP-AAA is that they easily get stuck without movement points after firing a shot or two.

Brian

Originally posted by skukko:
ok, interesting thread indeed <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

But as a german commander I would get hell out of that hill when shells start to fall. Barrage is visitcard for Bigger enemy approach, -Btn sized I would say. So why waste two valuable tanks and platoon for fight that can't be won. I would retreta hill and start sniping with Panther, also I would use infantry to spot tartgets and Panzer against infantry that arrives thru the smoke to empty hill.

Do it pbem -style <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

msoh

---

d you really think hitler would have alowed your retreat????????????

at least you were executed!!

dawn,this madman has made it impossible
to his (real good) commanders to act like
they think and view the situation.

the war would have had another outcome without
this man. but, i have read a book lately that says
roosevelt even refuses to talk to german restistance men....if the allied had given more
support to the anti hitler coalation in germany
perhaps some blodshed lesser had occured.
off topic a little i admit!!!!

HNY

Guess I forgot to say an American Ranger company... which has less men than a full mech company or rifle company. Also with the AI at 200. I agree with a full company they are quite capable of taking the hill. Also I agree that a smart (non AI) German commander could make things even more difficult... I would also manuver the German tanks away from smoke and arty..... sniping at the approaching vehicles....shoot & scoot German style.... I think the written description of Clark's action in taking that town might have been a little short on content..... If he did just charge into a city with no recon or intel he probably should have been court marshalled.

So it appears the best tactic is to bombard and smoke for a few turn.... assault with dismounted infantry in a leapfrog method with armor following, supplying extra smoke and direct fire when able.

Bjorn... thanks for the scenarios ... I will try them out tonight...

While not as glamorous as German or Soviet equipment, I think the US makes an interesting scenario.... It gives you a much more interesting set of command choices...... Kind of lets you feel what it must have been like for someone in that position... having to make daily life or death decisions for his men..... To me that is the real strength of SPWAW... You have to "pretend it's real" not just a game to be mastered with gamers tactics.

AmmoSgt,
impressive chiffres, indeed. But wait a moment, weren't there some other nations involved in the fighting, too? If you're counting losses on the West Front, you should add the British, Canadian, French, Polish etc. May be the losses will be a litle more balanced then <img src="wink.gif" border="0">