Matrix Games Forums

People are getting too romantic and dewy eyed about Tigers

I'm not getting romantic and dewey eyed over the big cats, I just think their better for handling tank vs tank combat (better gun, better armour). The germans were also the world leaders in this field of conflict (especially at the tactical level which WAW represents).
I can't see much difference for tigers but the panther has serious problem in V8. Any allied TD is a match for nearly half the price, at least in H2H they can handle one on one and are worth the large amounts of money you spend on them. The later version panthers are recognized as being among the worlds best and most advanced AFV's of the war (not an accolade regularly handed out to the sherman [:D]).
True the Germans tanks are strong in H2H but the allies are much cheaper giving the battles a more Quality vs quantity feel which i think better reflects the reality of the time (some 50 000 sherman and T34s produced). And for those who say the Germans are untermensch in H2H should actually look at the differences in experience levels for version 8.4 [X(]. The Germans nearly double any allied competitor early on (In H2H Exp advantages of 10 or 15 are the main as compared to 20 and up.

but the panther has serious problem in V8. Any allied TD is a match for nearly half the price, at least in H2H they can handle one on one

But this doesn't make sense at first glance. On paper, as I showed for instance, the panther is better and cheaper in version 8?. Is it the specs of the panther (as an example) that you don't agree with? Or is it the average experience levels of the crews driving the panther?

Or is it something else? What else has changed between 7 & 8? I say this because, in 7.1 H2h, in 44, I was surprised by how well my Churchills were shooting in a game. With 75mm's too. They shot more accurately more quickly than I was used to (being predominantly a version 8 player), and they seemed to knock out stuff better than I was used to with a 75. They've knocked out several panthers and that surprised me. At range and on the front armour.
Have the mechanics of armour penetration changed in version 8? Or the slope of armour calculations? Or the chances of getting ricochets instead of penetrations? Or a bunch of other things that I don't understand within the deeper workings of SPWAW?

If it is the latter, then the reduction in effectiveness goes for all nations, not just the Germans.

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

but the panther has serious problem in V8. Any allied TD is a match for nearly half the price, at least in H2H they can handle one on one

But this doesn't make sense at first glance. On paper, as I showed for instance, the panther is better and cheaper in version 8?. Is it the specs of the panther (as an example) that you don't agree with? Or is it the average experience levels of the crews driving the panther?

Or is it something else? What else has changed between 7 & 8? I say this because, in 7.1 H2h, in 44, I was surprised by how well my Churchills were shooting in a game. With 75mm's too. They shot more accurately more quickly than I was used to (being predominantly a version 8 player), and they seemed to knock out stuff better than I was used to with a 75. They've knocked out several panthers and that surprised me. At range and on the front armour.
Have the mechanics of armour penetration changed in version 8? Or the slope of armour calculations? Or the chances of getting ricochets instead of penetrations? Or a bunch of other things that I don't understand within the deeper workings of SPWAW?

If it is the latter, then the reduction in effectiveness goes for all nations, not just the Germans.

Try out 8.403, and IF you're a solo player, then adopt the "programmer's conventions"
for each and every OOB. The nation ratings make more sense (IMHO) IF these conventions are adopted.

Another thing -- you armor freaks are gonna have to get used to the fact that SPWaW has steadily transformed into a combined arms game over the years. The poor bloody infantry IS a factor on the WWII battlefield, as is air power and artillery support. To paraphrase the Talking Heads, "This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no F-P-S game" [:'(]

There are some statistical changes for the panther in the 2 different versions.
Targetting is 2 in V8 and 3 for H2H (for panthers A & D), and ROF is 6 for all panthers in H2H and 5 for panthers A & D in V8 so it has been dumbed down. I don't notice any improvement for these high FC & RF stats in version 8, in fact it performs worse. Panther is much more accurate in H2H and truly a tank to be feared as it was in real life.

Panther is much more accurate in H2H

Yes, but the question remains, why?

Try out 8.403, and IF you're a solo player, then adopt the "programmer's conventions"

And if you're NOT a solo player?

Adopt them anyway and try them. Both PBEM players may like them after they have tinkered around with them, especially the standardized pricing, which I found to be pretty good.


Goblin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Adopt them anyway and try them. Both PBEM players may like them after they have tinkered around with them, especially the standardized pricing, which I found to be pretty good.


Goblin

Yes. The whole idea was to maximize the customability of the game, and offer more choices to the gamers. This, to my mind, is much better than simply releasing yet another "official" OOB set.