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In CWiF, I do not think the priorities for naval rules were as high as the ground, political, Land Air, and production rules were.

As I have mentioned before there were some bugs that had yet to be addressed in CWiF.

Shannon will will get to address them during the MWiF beta [:D]

My version of the rules(downloaded from ADG) states that you not only abort CVP's but all aircraft to the seazone if you voluntary abort, it makes a big difference. The tactic would be to have a whole lot of FTR's and NAV's in the 1 box and if you roll bad in the search you only risk to lose your crappiest front bomber or FTR abort to the seazone and roll again for a better split, works good against an invasion fleet for example.


If you decide to voluntarily abort the air-to-air combat, apply an ‘A’ result (see 14.3.3) to every aircraft and carrier plane unit you have in the combat (exception: in naval air combats, you return aircraft and carrier plane units that voluntarily abort to the sea-box section they started from).

My version of the rules(downloaded from ADG) states that you not only abort CVP's but all aircraft to the seazone if you voluntary abort, it makes a big difference. The tactic would be to have a whole lot of FTR's and NAV's in the 1 box and if you roll bad in the search you only risk to lose your crappiest front bomber or FTR abort to the seazone and roll again for a better split, works good against an invasion fleet for example.


If you decide to voluntarily abort the air-to-air combat, apply an ‘A’ result (see 14.3.3) to every aircraft and carrier plane unit you have in the combat (exception: in naval air combats, you return aircraft and carrier plane units that voluntarily abort to the sea-box section they started from).

I would agree with that. But if you are aborted in air-to-air combat from a DA or AA result, LBA must leave the sea zone, return to a land hex and flip.

I think CWiF used WiF5 rules, so that is probably not the best authority.

No no, it was WiF FE rules.
CWiF was up to date with WiF FE Rules charts & counters as of 2003.
I don't think that RAW7 was fully implemented, but I have the list of changes between all rulebooks issued, so I will make sure that CWiF uses the latest one (RaW7 august 2004).

By AA result, I meant the AA as in Attacker Aborts, not Anti-Air...the same would apply to DA.

Wow, I was mistaken on this one. I thought you talked about Anti Air. You should have written : "an AA result" instead of "under AA effect" for me non native english speaker to understand immediately.

I have examined, decoded, commented, simplified, and corrected the ones relating to setting up a game. That might not sound like much, but it includes at lot of odd pieces of the game: neutrality pacts, declarations of war, US entry, conquered countries, liberated countries, controlling territory, Vichy France, aligned nations, incomplete conquest, captured units, controlling units of aligned nations, Siberians, Liners, stacking limits, force pools, air reserves, and more weird bits.

Vichy France was not working properly. Some bits were not working.

Actual movement and combat I have not looked at, so right now it is as CWIF handled it.

Movement & combat worked good. It will be a good start for you to improve it.

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead
I would agree with that. But if you are aborted in air-to-air combat from a DA or AA result, LBA must leave the sea zone, return to a land hex and flip.

If the air unit received a aborted result it would be would be flipped but in the sea zone.

Return to base

After the mission is completed, return surviving aircraft units (except carrier planes) to any friendly controlled hex within their range (doubled if they were flying at extended range). Carrier planes return to the sea-box section they flew from. Turn all units that return from a mission face-down.

Naval air and naval air interception missions are different - each aircraft stays in the sea area and keeps its current facing, face-up or face-down.

Rebase missions are also different - you do not turn the rebasing aircraft unit face-down after the mission is over.

all I know is I've read this thread 3 times and I am still confused.

If the air unit received a aborted result it would be would be flipped but in the sea zone.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Look at 2 paragraphs in RAW7.

First, 14.3.3 under combat results. After AA (Attacker aborts) it says "The owning player must return the chosen unit to any friendly controlled hex within range. Turn an aborted aircraft face-down." It does specify that Carrier planes abort back to the sea box. It does not say LBA are included in this eception.

Second, 11.3 under Naval air missions. Last section in this rule:
Unlike all aother air missions:
(c) at the end of the mission, you don't return the unit to base. Instead it stays at sea until you abort it in combat...

ORIGINAL: stretch

all I know is I've read this thread 3 times and I am still confused.

The confusion is inherent in the acronyms and choice of words used by ADG when writing the rules. AA is an abbreviation used to different ways: Anti-Aircraft fire and Attacker Aborts (an air combat result).

"Abort an air unit" also has double meanings. This is what most of the confusion is about. Some of the air-to-air combat results involve aborting aircraft from their mission (ground strike, strategic bombing, whatever). There is also the capability of a player to voluntarily abort all his air units. These are two distinct things in the world of WIF FE rules.

If the abort is forced (result of combat), then land based aircraft must return to a land hex and turn upside down, so they are no longer available for the rest of the turn. If the abort is voluntary ("I don't want to fight anymore"), then the land based aircraft return to the sea box they started in, and are available for additional combats during the rest of the turn.

This is a very simplified outline.

Naval air mission – This allows you to patrol a Sea Zone and counts against your air mission limit.

Naval combat in a Sea Zone

You can only initiate combat once in each Sea Zone in a naval combat step. This does not mean once for each side it means once per naval combat step per Sea Zone.

But there can be any number of Combat attempts during naval movement. This means you could have naval combats as long as there are no more than one per Sea Zone.

There are 2 ways to abort a mission:

(1) Voluntarily – you choose to abort the combat for some reason.
(2) Involuntarily – due to air-to-air or anti-aircraft combat results.

There are 4 types of Naval Combats:

(1) Naval air interception – Is a part of the naval combat sequence where you fly aircraft into a Sea Zone to perform Air-to-Surface combat. This does not count against your air mission limit. This includes air-to-air, anti-aircraft fire, voluntarily/involuntarily abort, and combat resolution steps.
(2) Submarine combat
(3) Surface combat
(4) The side with the higher search result can choose a combat even if it is not allowed.

You could have all 4 types of Naval Combat in a Sea Zone in a single naval combat step. Or several of one type before the naval combat ended.

Naval combat in a Sea Zone ends when:

(1) There are no longer opposing naval units abort the Sea Zone.
(2) Neither side finds each other due to a search result.

This is a very simplified outline.

I don't like this kind of outline, I prefer rule quoting. It's more precise & more true.

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

If the air unit received a aborted result it would be would be flipped but in the sea zone.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Look at 2 paragraphs in RAW7.

First, 14.3.3 under combat results. After AA (Attacker aborts) it says "The owning player must return the chosen unit to any friendly controlled hex within range. Turn an aborted aircraft face-down." It does specify that Carrier planes abort back to the sea box. It does not say LBA are included in this eception.

Second, 11.3 under Naval air missions. Last section in this rule:
Unlike all aother air missions:
(c) at the end of the mission, you don't return the unit to base. Instead it stays at sea until you abort it in combat...

11.3 Naval air missions

(c) at the end of the mission, you don’t return the unit to base. Instead, it stays at sea until you abort it in combat, return it to base in another naval air mission, or return it to base in the return to base step (see 13.4).

Rule 13.4 Return to base

14.2 Aircraft missions

Return to base

After the mission is completed, return surviving aircraft units (except carrier planes) to any friendly controlled hex within their range (doubled if they were flying at extended range). Carrier planes return to the sea-box section they flew from. Turn all units that return from a mission face-down.

Naval air and naval air interception missions are different - each aircraft stays in the sea area and keeps its current facing, face-up or face-down.

Rebase missions are also different - you do not turn the rebasing aircraft unit face-down after the mission is over.

Please explain "face-up or face-down".

Please explain "face-up or face-down".

Well, I don't see where the problem is.
I do not see what yo udo not understand, nor do I see the point you are trying to make.

First of all, I'm jealous of all you guys with the cool handles. Greyshaft, Mzlin, Cheesehead, Stretch, etc. I don't even have a proper avatar. All I have is my own boring name and stupid Yahoo! email address. This situation must be rectified!

How about PaK38? It was a german anti-tank gun [:'(] . Is pak19652002 your real name [&:] ? Either your parents didn't like you or you're actually from the future, where people all wear silver uniforms and a vast computer controls your ant-farm society by remotely inflicting intense pain in your brain for any transgressions from its lock-step plan. Or something. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Neilster

First of all, I'm jealous of all you guys with the cool handles. Greyshaft, Mzlin, Cheesehead, Stretch, etc. I don't even have a proper avatar. All I have is my own boring name and stupid Yahoo! email address. This situation must be rectified!

How about PaK38? It was a german anti-tank gun [:'(] . Is pak19652002 your real name [&:] ? Either your parents didn't like you or you're actually from the future, where people all wear silver uniforms and a vast computer controls your ant-farm society by remotely inflicting intense pain in your brain for any transgressions from its lock-step plan. Or something. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

You wound me.

To Mziln: you can have a LBA turned face-down in a sea zone beaucause you used it to start a intercept and IMHO the sentence only explain that, after a successful combat, your units are in the sea zone as they are, facedown or face-up, for the rest of the turn or until aborted by combat or by voluntary return to base.
Only my 2 cents.
Cheers, Kram.

ORIGINAL: kram

To Mziln: you can have a LBA turned face-down in a sea zone beaucause you used it to start a intercept and IMHO the sentence only explain that, after a successful combat, your units are in the sea zone as they are, facedown or face-up, for the rest of the turn or until aborted by combat or by voluntary return to base.
Only my 2 cents.
Cheers, Kram.

If the only purpose of the rule is to stop the air units from initiating a combat this would only effect a Naval air mission used to start the first Naval air interception. Since Air units flown to the sea zone in a Naval air interception cannot be used to initiate combat in the sea zone during the same naval combat step.

11.5 Naval combat

11.5.1 Combat sequence

After you have made all your naval moves, you can, if you wish, initiate naval combat. A side can only try to initiate combat once in each sea area each naval combat step (there can be any number of interception combat attempts during naval movement).

You can’t try to initiate naval combat at all if you chose a land or pass action. However, your units can take part in any combat that another major power initiates.

Choose a sea area and initiate a combat there. You can only choose an area if it contains at least one unit from each side that are at war with each other.

Combat sequence

After you have made all your naval moves, you can, if you wish, initiate naval combat. A side can only try to initiate combat once in each sea area each naval combat step (there can be any number of interception combat attempts during naval movement).

11.5.2 Initiating a combat

To initiate a combat, point to a sea area where you have a face-up (non-convoy) unit at war with another major power, and announce that you will initiate combat there. If you have no face-up units in the area (except convoys), you can’t initiate a combat there. If you chose an air action, the unit chosen must be an aircraft.

11.5.3 Naval air interception

Once combat is initiated in a sea area, each side (active side first) can fly aircraft units into it. You can only fly units that could fly a naval air mission into that sea area (see 11.3).

So what does this mean?

If you decide to voluntarily abort the air-to-air combat, apply an ‘A’ result (see 14.3.3) to every aircraft and carrier plane unit you have in the combat (exception: in naval air combats, you return aircraft and carrier plane units that voluntarily abort to the sea-box section they started from).

It is possible for both sides to voluntarily abort the same combat.

14.3.3 Combat results

If voluntarily aborts are Returned to base in the Sea Zone why is it diferent for a combat abort?

ORIGINAL: Mziln
So what does this mean?

If you decide to voluntarily abort the air-to-air combat, apply an ‘A’ result (see 14.3.3) to every aircraft and carrier plane unit you have in the combat (exception: in naval air combats, you return aircraft and carrier plane units that voluntarily abort to the sea-box section they started from).

It is possible for both sides to voluntarily abort the same combat.

14.3.3 Combat results

If voluntarily aborts are Returned to base in the Sea Zone why is it diferent for a combat abort?

The logic behind the rules is rarely explained in RAW. Often it is possible to figure it out logically, but there are instances (like the one above) where why the rule is written as it is, is unclear.

If the abort is forced (result of combat), then land based aircraft must return to a land hex and turn upside down, so they are no longer available for the rest of the turn. If the abort is voluntary ("I don't want to fight anymore"), then the land based aircraft return to the sea box they started in, and are available for additional combats during the rest of the turn.

Very nicely put this was exactly what I wanted to say in my initial post.
And the LBA are not only available for combat for the rest of the turn but can actually call for an immediate re-roll and try for a better search split and create a new combat in the same impulse. This makes the LBA's very strong and a ood protection against an invasion force without airsupremacy.