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RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:32 pm
by Goblin
Q. How do morale and experience points translate into combat capability?
A. The higher the points the better, with 70 being the average, it breaks down as follows;
Morale
40 or less -. Usually turn and run after a shot or two. Very difficult to rally.
40-54 - Conscripts, they really don't want to be there and will look for a
chance to break and run (or hide)
55-64 - Green, lower on the scale, very green.
65-75 - Average, seen some combat, endured some artillery barrages, fairly reliable. Too much pressure and they may break.
76-85 - Pretty solid guys. They can take some punishment. They may break but
they come back fairly easily.
86-95 - Here are the elite, paratroopers, early SS, Marines, Rangers,
Commandos. They don't break easily and in usually one turn are back in the fight
96-105- Fanatical, determined, they keep coming. Cossacks or Cavalry
charges, Banzai attacks, suicide missions.
105 plus - Only killing them will stop them.
Experience
40 or less - Very inefficient. They get killed easily.
40-54 - Little experience with weapons but not much. Don't count on their
accuracy or survival in a hot firefight.
55-64 - Fair at both the offensive and Defensive types of fights. They use
their weapons but are light on results
65-74 - The average soldier, GI, German, etc. Holds his own and does a fair
job of staying alive
75-84 - There are a few marksmen in the group. They'll get some kills, and
do a pretty good job of surviving.
85-94 - Good shots. They get kills and a goodly number of them. They know
how to use defensive tactics and don't take many casualties unless overwhelmed.
95-104 - Pretty deadly. They kill something almost everytime they fire.
105 plus - Get in their sights and you're a dead man!
The leaders also play an influence. Their values correspond in their influence on the men they
control.
From the manual. I believe this indicates that most Minors should have a 55-64 range (assuming you start with an 'untried' unit; many had already been in battles, and should be one higher), based on the above descriptions. That would put their conscripts into the correct range with the -10 penalty for conscripts. It would also make their 'Elite' units equivalent to an average soldier. The manual also states that you can have above average troops, and the leadership rating will make them fight worse, which is what happened to some of the minor nations. This is one area of the manual that seems, to me, to be dead on as far as experience, morale, etc goes with Minors in the game.
Goblin
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:36 pm
by VikingNo2
If the values are in the 35 or below range, the counrty is near usless, on the troop side of things. I think on the leader side the values look pretty good IMO and I have played quite a bit of small games with these new values. The way they stand not if you have crappy leaders you have crappy troops thats just not the case sometime.
Respectfully Submitted
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:53 pm
by Alby
from the manual....
Experience
Higher experience numbers indicate a unit that will shoot better, be tougher on defense, and degrade in status more slowly under enemy fire. Experienced units are less susceptible to suppression, have a better chance to hit enemy units, spot enemy units better, are harder to spot
themselves, and close assault tanks better. There are four basic experience levels: Green (30-49), Average (50-79), Veteran (80-99), and Elite (100+). Units gain experience at the end of each mission if you are playing a campaign game. Unit experience does not change during a game.
The range is 30 to 140 experience points. Elite units, for example, are units that have over 100experience points.
According to this most "minors" are below even the green troops level.
[X(]
Does anyone know what the ratings are for countries after 1945??
I always see the numbers from 1939-1945 only.
[&:]
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:31 pm
by Colonel von Blitz
Wow, Bulgaria and Republican Spain have been blessed with 35 experience in 1944-45. What are they, recruits with 1 week of training? And Italia and Hungary has 30 in 1944-45, so they must be very Green troops then. One might assume that they're recruits without issued uniform yet, just arrived to training...
But wait, there's more...Romania has been granted whopping 30 in 1943 and even greater 25 in 1944-45. During the early part of the war, they have 35. Yippee! The experience value at 25 I just have to assume that these guys represent limbless recruits from a mental hospital with IQ around 10, going around drooling...what a tribute to Rumanian veterans too...
Come on, maybe major nations could be pumped up a bit and minor countries given at least some sensible values...at the moment, that's just ridiculous. In 1941, maybe early 1942 could mean veteran troops (80-99) for germany as a standard?
-Colonel von Blitz-
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:40 pm
by Goblin
The 8.2-8.3 values look better and better to me, in comparison to their current values...
Goblin
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:41 pm
by JEB Davis
ORIGINAL: TheDesertRat
...
--- leader exp ---
70, 75, 75, 75, 70, 65, 60 // GERMAN
70, 70, 70, 70, 65, 60, 60 // FINNISH
30, 30, 35, 40, 30, 30, 30 // ITALIAN
30, 30, 35, 35, 30, 25, 25 // RUMANIAN
40, 40, 45, 45, 45, 40, 35 // HUNGARIAN
65, 65, 75, 70, 70, 70, 65 // JAPANESE
Didn't I read somewhere that these are base values to which a randomly rolled amount is added to, which makes the values for each unit HIGHER than these base values? I searched the manual but didn't find this, but "WAWEd.exe" seems to support this - - is this done in the game, or is this just in WAWEd.exe?
Can someone confirm or disprove this to clear up my confusion?
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:00 pm
by Goblin
The actual values are higher or lower than the base number after the variables are added. Purchase some units after setting base value at 40 (or whatever). Purchase standard (non-elite, non-second line) troops, then deploy them and check their numbers. The base number is what a rough average of a large force will turn out to be. Which means a unit with a base of 25 might get 19 for its stat. I'm not sure, but that may be the morale rating of a white tail deer on opening day.....
Goblin
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:01 pm
by Colonel von Blitz
ORIGINAL: JEB Davis
Didn't I read somewhere that these are base values to which a randomly rolled amount is added to, which makes the values for each unit HIGHER than these base values?
I think you're right, but if your base value is 30 and you can have something like +/- 10 (a guess of mine) to that (when purchasing average units), then you very best, super elite, most highly trained unit would have a whopping ~40 of experience...take +10 elite unit, and wow, you can almost have ~50 of exp, if you're lucky.
-Colonel von Blitz-
RE: Leader and troop experience and morale values
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:22 pm
by JEB Davis
Sorry guys, my mis-memory was telling me the random number was only on the "plus" side. My mistake.
Thanks for the clarification.