Matrix Games Forums

Looking good, but please change RAF P-40-F kittyhawk II to Kittyhawk I or Kittyhawk III as your listed variant did not serve with the RAF during the war.

Cheers

MJT

ahhhh

hassles, the p40 F kittyhawk II was assigned to the RAF, 150 were shipped, most of them later were given back to the US, some to the French and most to the Russian

the P40 L was also named the Kittyhawk II, and can not be told apart, based on RAF numbers

but not to worry, I pulled the Kittyhawk II, it is no longer in the game, the RAF will get the Kittyhawk IV now

Thank you for sorting the kittyhawk II issue for this game.

MJT

biggest hassle with this is I got a ton of books sitting here, and almost every one wants to say something a little different

over all, I am finding out which books, I am starting to trust over the others, so they are staying towards the top of the pile

other hassle, is did the person writing the book do his homework, or just copy data down from some one else

(Green was a major hassle of this type, he wrote a lot of bad info, which later on, he became the master, and now most people just copy his data word by word, so the same mistakes keep being repeated (IE the He 219, 80% or more of the info on this plane is based on a engine that was never built))

but, I do try to find the best/most of the info I need, if others then can show I made a mistake, I will relook

well, what do you think ???

Looks good!

I was looking at the wrong screen

cruise speed upped to 245, range is now 798, very close to what it should be

Would have been a great plane if they could have sorted the reliabilty. Didn't they get withdrawn in late 1943?

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

Would have been a great plane if they could have sorted the reliabilty. Didn't they get withdrawn in late 1943?

Wonder what it would have been like if they installed Merlin engines.

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

well, what do you think ???

Maximum speed 270??

MJT

yes, it is another one of those, what if planes

the Whirlwind I, is rated at 360 clean, once that added the support of bombs and added the weight in, it really took a beating

not many planes were really made (114) but 2 Squadrons used them in 1943 as Whirlybombers

so over all, it is not a good plane to have or to use, light bomb load, but got a little range,

the standard game, just pulled those two squadrons out and had them being refitted, this will be the players choice now

if any one has more info on the 43 verison, please post, all my books seem to agree on all the info listed (in fact they so close, they all look to be copied from each other)

(bomb load seems awful light to be doing that much slow down to the plane)

Isn't the maneuver rating a bit too high or was it really that agile and handy ?
Will this plane be producable ?
What plane is sheduled to replace it ? Beaus or Mosquitos ?

Well that is a bit of a hassle, everything I have read on it, it was a very nice plane, but just too under powered, and only good for low level

I am trying to have a base rateing at 15,000, then it can change when it goes higher or lower

this plane really will take a beating over 15,000

besides with it low top speed/cruise speed, it's MRV will not help it much

I am looking at giving the Allies 1 plane a day until 44 (which to be honest is way too many)

the upgrade path should be the Tiffy

it really is one of those what could of been planes, in 1940, with a top speed of 360, it was a decent plane, and the old stand by, if it could of been given the Merlin, it may of been a great plane, but to many other needs and too few engines to go around, ruined it

hassle is, I do not mind the MRV for 1943, but if we going to match it up to 1940/41, I think 32 is too high

still shot was shown, to see what others think, not much decent info on this plane, it is not set in stone

Replacement should be Typhoon IB. Both 137 Sqn and 263 Sqn converted to tiffies (137 Sqn operating the Hurricane IV in between) in the ground attack role.

I've read that the Whirlwind could have been a great aircraft if it had been further developed (outstanding airframe), but because the Peregrine was stillborn so was the Whirlwind. I don't suppose is was very impressive with a couple of bombs slung underneath.

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

yes, it is another one of those, what if planes

the Whirlwind I, is rated at 360 clean, once that added the support of bombs and added the weight in, it really took a beating

not many planes were really made (114) but 2 Squadrons used them in 1943 as Whirlybombers

so over all, it is not a good plane to have or to use, light bomb load, but got a little range,

the standard game, just pulled those two squadrons out and had them being refitted, this will be the players choice now

if any one has more info on the 43 verison, please post, all my books seem to agree on all the info listed (in fact they so close, they all look to be copied from each other)

(bomb load seems awful light to be doing that much slow down to the plane)

Since i don't know what your souces are its hard to comment.
However looking at Whirlwind The wesland Whirlwind Fighter by Victor Bingham.
On page 45 it states:-

Maximum level speed 318mph at 15,000
Maximum weight with two 500lb bombs 11,409lbs
Service ceiling of 27,500ft
Time to 10,000ft 5.4 min
Time to 20,000ft 12.2 min

Just to make it more intresting it appears that most Whirlwind Fighter bomber missions were carried out with two 250lb bombs and not 500lb bombs. I am still trying to find performance listings for this payload.

MJT

Climb rate and other info matches pretty close, see what you can find though

my books make it a point to state this is top speed when clean and this is top speed with bomb load

I really would hate to drop the load to a lighter one, this plane is a oddball as it is

but it is a sneak plane, get in and get out, while the other guy is busy, other then that, it will be dead meat

I've been doing a bit more checking on the Westland Whirlwind.
At Sea level "0" feet the Maximum speed with 2x500lb bombs was 270mph.
At 15,000 ft the Maximum level speed was 318mph with 2x500lb bomb load.
At 15,000 ft the Maximum Level speed was 325mph with 2x250lb bomb load.

I hope this clears it up a bit.
As a side note while 263 squadron and 137 were the only operational squadrons with the Whirlwind, the first three Whirlwinds were sent to 25 Squadron. On the 17 june 1940 25 Squadron began to be re-equipped with Beaufighters and the three Whirlwinds went to 263 Squadron.

MJT

thank you, that makes more sense, that is a pretty heavy speed drop for 1000 pounds of weight

Sorry Hard Sarge but if you re-read my last message you will see that the speed with 2x500lb bombs was 318mph at 15,000ft. With 2x250lb bombs the speed goes up to 325mph.

MJT

ahhh
roger, read it, but when I went to make the changes I came back and just took the last line

corrected

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Looking good, but please change RAF P-40-F kittyhawk II to Kittyhawk I or Kittyhawk III as your listed variant did not serve with the RAF during the war.

Cheers

MJT

ahhhh

hassles, the p40 F kittyhawk II was assigned to the RAF, 150 were shipped, most of them later were given back to the US, some to the French and most to the Russian

the P40 L was also named the Kittyhawk II, and can not be told apart, based on RAF numbers

but not to worry, I pulled the Kittyhawk II, it is no longer in the game, the RAF will get the Kittyhawk IV now

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
....almost every one wants to say something a little different

You're not wrong about everyone having an opinion. However in this case I had to butt in. I agree with you on the use of Kittyhawk IV but not for the reason that Langley cites.

The RAF did operate significant numbers of Kittyhawk IIs (I have a figure of 330) but mainly in the desert airforce period. No.3 Squadron RAAF operated the type for some months and only very reluctantly reverted back to the Kittyhawk III when the replacement pool dried up. No.450 Squadron never operated Kittyhawk IIs (except for the CO who managed to acquire one from 3 Sqn and refused to give it back). Reference: Desert Warriors by Banner Books. (An excellent and detailed read by the way).

By the time 1943 rolled around, most squadrons were operating Kittyhawk IV.