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RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:56 am
by dinsdale
ORIGINAL: L`zard

Really, it's quite simple...........

Vote with your money! No real reason to bitch on-line, eh?

If your of the camp that thinks that a 'rerelease' of a game isn't worth your bucks, don't buy it, eh?

Myself, everything about ToaW3 is worth MY time/money.....so basically, I'll just ignore the nay-sayers and drive on.

'Nuff said!

I bought TOAW 1 then TOAW 2, and picked up COW in a bargain bin sometime. I don't see enough value in the new release to be worth the price for me, but for anyone without the game it's a steal. Maybe those of you with the prior versions don't mind spending money on the new feature set, some obviously do, and rather than insulating Matrix from any negative post, maybe you should respect their customers who are prepared to give them feedback, provided it's polite.

But as this thread seems to contain a bunch of posts praising the game and and it's price point, combined with a collective disdain for some mythical "nay sayers" I suppose that respecting other peoples opinions is only convenient if it's agreable.

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:00 am
by ravinhood
Well as far as remakes go I can see the value of them to Matrixgames for new people entering the wargaming world. Just because us old farts whine and cry about same ole same ole, to a 12-13 year old all this is brand new to them. Most of these were good games back then and we have a thread on this very same site of games we'd like to see Matrixgames redo. These most immediate releases are just not on my list though. Doesn't mean they won't sell well though. Face it, us old farts are dying out, we have one foot in the grave lol. They give squat about what we want anymore. It's all about the $$ has to be or they couldn't stay in business. Look what Battlefront is doing, they musta made a fortune on the WWII Combat Mission series and now they are doing some hypothetical middle east conflict against Syria I could give squat about and surely won't buy it upon release. But, I guess a buncha 12-13 year olds who's dad is in Iraq will want to jump on it in a heartbeat. Have to face facts, developers and publishers make and sell what they want to, not always what we (old farts) want them to. ;) Hell I'm still waiting for a 3D first person "Heart of Africa" remake (probably never see it) lol.

@Les the Sarge

About TOAW Elite, I run a dual boot system WinXP and Win98, very simple really to setup, don't understand why everyone that games doesn't have a setup like this. TOAW Elite works great on Win98 merely a matter of a reboot when I want to play it. ;) I have DOSBOX for older games. Even got "ROADWAR 2000" up and working. That is still a fun game to play even though the graphics are dated.

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:56 am
by Les_the_Sarge_9_1
"@Les the Sarge

About TOAW Elite, I run a dual boot system WinXP and Win98, very simple really to setup, don't understand why everyone that games doesn't have a setup like this. TOAW Elite works great on Win98 merely a matter of a reboot when I want to play it. ;) I have DOSBOX for older games. Even got "ROADWAR 2000" up and working. That is still a fun game to play even though the graphics are dated."

unquote

Alas, the only glitch there is the loading the Win98 part. I can't recall how many times I have tried to re install that &^%$#^@ OS in the last year, and something in the process got snarled. Drivers, or some friggin fiddly issue or another.
It's of course nice that with XP, a person can easily (in theory) have a multi boot set up, but that statement fails where the word "easily" is concerned. FAT vs NTFS for instance, if you have not got a FAT partition, you can't get far. And the C drive needs to be FAT "first". Then there is needing to be able to use a 3.5 drive, and heck, they have almost phased those out of computers entirely.

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:06 pm
by Les_the_Sarge_9_1
ORIGINAL: dinsdale
ORIGINAL: L`zard

Really, it's quite simple...........

Vote with your money! No real reason to bitch on-line, eh?

If your of the camp that thinks that a 'rerelease' of a game isn't worth your bucks, don't buy it, eh?

Myself, everything about ToaW3 is worth MY time/money.....so basically, I'll just ignore the nay-sayers and drive on.

'Nuff said!

I bought TOAW 1 then TOAW 2, and picked up COW in a bargain bin sometime. I don't see enough value in the new release to be worth the price for me, but for anyone without the game it's a steal. Maybe those of you with the prior versions don't mind spending money on the new feature set, some obviously do, and rather than insulating Matrix from any negative post, maybe you should respect their customers who are prepared to give them feedback, provided it's polite.

But as this thread seems to contain a bunch of posts praising the game and and it's price point, combined with a collective disdain for some mythical "nay sayers" I suppose that respecting other peoples opinions is only convenient if it's agreable.

Most miss an important point.

It's not about whether the day one release is still "ok" as software, it's about whether that "might be ok software" is even about to be available to a newcomer.

I have seen some remarks to the effect, that this is wrong, this is problematic, this hasn't been fixed etc in connection with TOAW3, and thus one is left to ponder "should I buy it?"

When really, there is no real need to ponder. Because, chances are your chances of buying any pre TOAW3 version falls under the heading of "not realistically likely".
Sure, you "might" find an old version on eBay, or get a last stray TOAW CoW disc from some operation like NWS, but, there's no future for the game expecting any newly interested players relying on the advice "you might find a copy on eBay".

It's just not worth the time endlessly trying to convince a person that has the older versions, that the newest version "rocks". Chances are, they are already aware of the new versions warts, and they don't need are help much in making that decision.
Chamces are also, that veterans of the game already understand, it's unlikely you will enjoy a lot of success playing older versions online against others, when increasingly those online others will have the new version, and their older version will not be compatible.
If you think that sucks, I guess constantly upgrading Windows OSs must reeeeeeeeally bug you :)

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:05 pm
by ravinhood
Thing is the really "innovative" days of computer games are over. Back in the 80's to mid 90's we got some awesome stuff and much of it was something new everytime. About the time of Win95 is when it started and of course 3D video cards. Then the innovation stopped and just repeats of the same began and for 10 years it's been this way with little to nothing really new and innovating that made you ewwww an ahhhhh and rush to the store to buy it as soon as it was ready. Well not for me anyway. For 12-13 and probably several 20ish year olds this stuff is like that to them. I was 24 thereabouts when computer gaming on the pc hit and I couldn't wait for the next game I lived by SSI games most entirely until "Sid Meiers Railroad Tycoon and Civilization". Gawd then I wanted every game to be like them. But, we didn't get many lookalike or copycats of those two great ones. Master of Magic was the closest I think.
 
At least I can die knowing I lived in the best of times in computer gaming, the pioneer days when great games were made and innovation was at its highest. :) Hrmmm now where is my "Geopolitique disks and Germany 85"?? ;) I lived in a time of Laminated maps and real honest to goodness hard bound MANUALS!! ;) I think some developers/publishers have been watching too much Star Trek and think hard bound manualess games are something that the vast majority enjoy nowadays. Sorry I'm not one of them. I also think they've lost their minds if they think online purchasing is outweighing brick n mortar purchases by consumers. Little too far advanced I think, Star Trek days ain't here yet.
 
Let me just type you something I read in an editoral by Johnny Wilson:
 
"Quote"
I am beginning to see a pattern emerge. I first began to notice this while visiting a game company that had previously led the industry with innovative technology and products. But on this trip, most of what they were showing me fell into two  "ME TOO" catagories; first person perspective 3D-shooters and real time strategy games. At that point I was aware of the 24 real-time strategy games and 10 first-person shooters already in development. Yet, I grinned and bore it through their presentation.
 
Why are publishers willing to pour MILLIONS of dollars into "ME TOO" products when they won't take even small risks on INNOVATIVE games?"
 
"Unquote"
 
Know when he wrote this??? 1997 !!!!!! lol this was almost 10 years ago now that he noticed and saw this trend. It's even worse today it seems. Must be 100's of rts and near that first person shooters. All nearly alike all same basic gameplay. Nothing has changed much but guess what??? THE GRAPHICS!!!
 
I personally don't like shelling out $50 bucks after $50 bucks for a graphics facelift or some little tweaks and changes to the program at full retail price. This is how I will feel about all of the Talonsoft series that Matrixgames puts out unless their pricing changes to that of a reasonable expansion or update. These aren't going to be NEW and INNOVATING releases. They are going to be patched up plain and simple and made to work on WinXP. I don't see that as something that should cost the consumer $50 or $40 closer to $24.95 sounds more reasonable to me. ;) But, that's just me. They will price them as they see fit. I just will be one of the ones not buying them thas all. ;) 
 
For me it just seems the games I want from Matrixgames have been under lock n key for far too long. EIA, Guns of August, Combat Leader (which they scrapped if you've been keeping up with it), I was interested in that Battles of Napoleon until I read they have massacred the origional game design for something totally different. "Battles of Napoleon" was one of the greatest games of the 80's. Never understood why developers want to butcher up a remake and really turn it into something that is going to be crap instead. This "command decision" crap that keeps moving to the forefront instead of "hands-on let me play all the GD pieces". If I want to watch a "movie" I'll buy or rent a movie. When I play a game I want to play the WHOLE game, not just make some lines in the sand and then watch the animations and then get some graphical display or popup screen of what happened while I couldn't do a dam thing. ;) Too many are taking the strategy out of wargames these days. Putting in too much candy coated animations and letting the AI play the damn game instead of us. Mad Minutes two games come to mind here and the HTTR/COTA series. I was born pushing counters around the map, rolling dice, looking at combat results tables, reading the rules in manuals, I got to play the WHOLE game not just a portion of it. Hell they've already taken away rolling the dice, looking at combat results tables away from us and what manuals??? lol All we have left is "pushing the counters around the computer screen" and hell they want to take that away from us also. ;)
 
Oh well enough ranting thing is "nobody cares what anyone else thinks anyways". I sometimes wonder why we even do this myself. ;) I do it killing time while my dialup is downloading the umpteenth video card patch from Nvidia at 40+mb. Man I dread the day when regular patches become 100+mb monsters. lol

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:39 pm
by Les_the_Sarge_9_1
Not to refute you ravinhood, but, 50 bucks for a next version of a game is easy :)

Try keeping up with an ASL habit hehe. 90 bucks just for a ASL rulebook 2 2nd printing manual ouch.

New set of ASL starter kit version boards set, all 52 standard boards (I don't even want to do the math to find out what the price would be).

But, I have always known, too many out there think you can put perfume on a pig and it makes a difference hehe.

There hasn't been near the "new" in games lately as there was for a large chunk of the 90s.

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:40 pm
by ravinhood
Thing is with ASL you ARE getting new stuff, not just a refurbished origional ASL game with better board graphics or unit counter graphics. You ARE getting your moneys worth with the ASL series. The same game for the same $50 is not the same as an ASL upgrade sorry to say. ;)

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:16 am
by Sarge
What is this ASL upgrade your talking about [&:]

I am a ASL fanatic but have to admit I have not been following all the new stuff released in the last year, but I am unaware of any upgrade.


RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:27 am
by Les_the_Sarge_9_1
ASL Upgrade is not a term that describes it well enough.

ASL has a version 1 manual, that, likely would be plenty fine if you had the modules and simply didn't care if a bit of rules text had been revamped since then.

ASL has the 2nd edition manual now though. Largely a reflection of how MMP had to get it all back into print when they took over the stewardship of the game. A lot of errata was phased into the text, some areas were revamped to reflect changes the community were wanting done.

Basically, it's the same deal with TOAW. If you have TOAW CoW, you really don't "need" TOAW3 genuinely. But, being a stick in the mud about it "might" cause troubles later against opponents that ARE using it (this also happens with ASL).

When MMP released the 2nd edition manual, a new comer looking to get one, risked getting trampled by the veteran players rushing to buy their own copy. The supplies were depleted incredibly fast. That's why I identify my copy as a 2nd printing copy (with even further editting perks thrown in).

RE: Talk of Matrix Games and pricing of re releases

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:35 am
by Sarge
I see,

I was aware of the update of the rules in the “ 2nd edition “, I just thought I missed some big upgrade the way Ravinhood was rambling.

I should know better [:D]