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RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:32 pm
by Skyfire7631
ORIGINAL: Arjuna
While I appreciate that having a campaign feature would be nice, doing it properly is a BIG job. We are only doing one BIG new feature per title and right at the moment we are booked out for the next five titles, so it will be a while before we contemplate it.
Well, too bad then : I bought HttR, made advertizing for it on all the forums I frequent, but decided not to buy CotA because of the lack of a campaign mode. Looks like it will be a while 'till I buy again a game of this series [:(]
Ah well, c'est la vie [;)]
Regards.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:56 pm
by Trigger Happy
I think a scrolling window campaign would be more appropriate for AA then what you find in flight sims or in Campaign Series... [:D]A bit like the original Mario Bros.[:D] The scenario would extend to the entire duration of the operation without interruption and in it, you have command of, let's say, a soviet corps (or a western/german division). Depending on your advance, new part of the map in front of your forces would reveal themselves, and in the back, parts where no units are left would dissappear with no possibility to come back, as in Mario Bros... well until a counter attack begins and you're forced to retreat. Now, wouldn't it be cool to be able to follow 6.Pz.Div. from start of Wintergewitter to the very end without interruption. I concur however that mapping 10,000 km2 would be a pain.
Oh, and I'm being serious.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:33 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: Skyfire76
ORIGINAL: Arjuna
While I appreciate that having a campaign feature would be nice, doing it properly is a BIG job. We are only doing one BIG new feature per title and right at the moment we are booked out for the next five titles, so it will be a while before we contemplate it.
Well, too bad then : I bought HttR, made advertizing for it on all the forums I frequent, but decided not to buy CotA because of the lack of a campaign mode. Looks like it will be a while 'till I buy again a game of this series [:(]
Ah well, c'est la vie [;)]
Regards.
I own HTTR. Enjoyed the game. CotA for me is so much better and I really think your missing out.
I mean its not really like us wargamers are spoilt for choice is it?
Long live Panther Games........
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:39 am
by Plodder
ORIGINAL: Arjuna
While I appreciate that having a campaign feature would be nice, doing it properly is a BIG job. We are only doing one BIG new feature per title and right at the moment we are booked out for the next five titles, so it will be a while before we contemplate it.
I was wondering if it can be made possible to export forces and their condition at the end of a scenario.Then you could leave the campaign system up to us...[:D]
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:51 am
by Arjuna
The Plodder,
So you would then create a a new scenario and import them?
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:03 am
by Plodder
Yep,seems the simplist option.I was thinking maybe create all the scenarios in advance without any forces(except perhaps units specific to that map),play through the first scenario,export/import the forces to the next scenario and so on.
Obviously it would have to be a canned campaign, the only dynamic thing would be the forces involved.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:12 am
by Plodder
Actually it probably wouldn't be too difficult(just time consuming) to have a branching campaign ala SP Mega-campaigns,if you could save the type of victory had (minor,major) you could have a spreadsheet that could have set conditions and show the player what scenario to use depending on the results of the last one.You could also factor in replacements etc.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:00 am
by Arjuna
You see how easy feature creep starts. [;)]
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:07 am
by Plodder
[:D][:D] I see that the victory messages are moddable anyway so I guess you wouldn't need the spreadsheet, just tell the player what scenario to use in the victory message.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:11 am
by JudgeDredd
ORIGINAL: Arjuna
You see how easy feature creep starts. [;)]
Absolutely Dave...that's why I said previously....JUST LISTEN TO ME. It's simple and sweet and I promise I won't add to it ...until you release it and I see the shortfall of my thoughts!! [;)]
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:15 am
by CriticalMass
If we had enough map makers we could do an online Campaign along the lines of the
Combat Mission - Meta Campaign (different scale I know).
We could use google maps as the stategic map (Greece say
). Obviously someone would need to act as a "game master" blah, blah, blah...sorry was I talking?!
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:33 am
by JudgeDredd
I like this idea. I always wanted to get into the Combat Mission Meta Campaign but I was wayyyy too late. I think it's a great idea.
Markshot?
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:59 am
by Bil H
A campaign such as this has already been played (HTTR maps and game for grand tactical movement, CMAK for battle resolution), it was based on a battle in Sicily between the German and Brit paras (Pegasus Bridge). The referee would set up each turn, and then the supreme commanders for each side would play HTTR head to head until contact was made (in 1 hour increments). Worked great, but was a heavy load for the referee to set up the HTTR scenarios, and the CMAK battles, among other things...
Bil
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:36 pm
by MarkShot
ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I like this idea. I always wanted to get into the Combat Mission Meta Campaign but I was wayyyy too late. I think it's a great idea.
Markshot?
Sorry, I must have dozed off. Did I miss something? Thanks.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:41 pm
by CriticalMass
ORIGINAL: Bil H
A campaign such as this has already been played (HTTR maps and game for grand tactical movement, CMAK for battle resolution), it was based on a battle in Sicily between the German and Brit paras (Pegasus Bridge). The referee would set up each turn, and then the supreme commanders for each side would play HTTR head to head until contact was made (in 1 hour increments). Worked great, but was a heavy load for the referee to set up the HTTR scenarios, and the CMAK battles, among other things...
Bil
Hi Bil,
is there an AAR site for this?
TANX
Andrew
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:11 pm
by Bil H
Here is the link to the forum:
CMOC you can find the rules etc there. I don't think the campaign was ever completed, and the side specific forums are private.
BTW, here is what I wrote back then on the BETA forum:
Here is a comparison of the OpZone for the first battle (I am the 1st British Para Bn in these images).
Original OpZone screenshot out of HTTR:
The CMAK map, created with Mapping Mission (a user made utility used to create maps in CMAK almost on the fly from layers. The MapMaker layers make this an almost perfect utility):
A zoomed in view of the Primisole Bridge. Our major objective for this campaign.
Bil
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:30 pm
by Oleg Mastruko
CMAK being mentioned in the same breath with COTA makes me shudder with terror
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:31 pm
by Bil H
And here is more:
Myself and a group of Combat Mission gamers (including Warren Miron) have concocted a new use for the HTTR engine (actually this was my idea about 6-8 months ago while playing a campaign with another tool - COCAT, which was a pain to use). We are using HTTR to setup the opposing forces, which the GOC's (General Officer in Charge) then take into HTTR and play until contact is made (up to one game-hour at a time). Then using that information a scenario (or scenarios for multiple battles) is constructed in CM (we are using CMAK for this campaign) and the battle is fought out. The results then will be used to reset the HTTR scenario (we are playing a game centering around Primosole Bridge in Sicily where the British Red-Devils fought the German Green-Devils). HTTR basically controls all FOW and movement... battles are resolved in CMAK. Right now I am fighting a battle centering around the Primosole Bridge with the 1st Bn/1st Para Brigade.
Here is the map that was constructed by one of the moderators of the campaign:
I just thought it would be neat for you guys to see another way that HTTR is being used. One thing. The units in HTTR (Platoons) are just place holders (we have an OB file that outlines the makeup of each unit), so any issues from the lack of an accurate OB for this timeframe doesn't effect us.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:51 pm
by JeF
Bil,
Very impressive stuff. I've a lot of respect for GMs of such campaigns.
I think the idea of Critical Mass was a bit different :
- COTA is used to resolve "tactical" battles.
- strategic layer is done, like in CMMC, by an equivalent of COCAT.
When units encounter in the strategic map, GMs create the COTA map (or they have it already done) and generate the appropriate scenario. At the end of the battle, they analyse causalties and results to report both at the strategic layer.
This is a huge, a very huge task IMHO.
Did I stranslate your thoughts correctly Critical ?
JeF.
RE: Campaign mode next time around?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:02 pm
by JudgeDredd
ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
CMAK being mentioned in the same breath with COTA makes me shudder with terror
Why? CMAK is a very, very good game in it's own right.