Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: abj9562

I could be wrong and I may be thinking of a different game but I think the island north of Hawaii was originally a game mechanic of the original WiF for aircraft movement to/from the USA box and as correctly stated did not actually exist.

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

I have marched a MAR deep down into the Pacific with land moves, Borneo, Sumatra, and New Guinea all being connected. This is just from memory. There is an incredible chain of land hexes marine units can move along on the regular Wif Pacific map. Yes all of these are less effective than naval transport, however no invasions are done during movement, the notional units can become a non factor.

I'm also aware most of these moves between hexsides would require the MAR to flip, and in the new MWIF this is less likely to be the case.

The maps above disconnect some KEY island chains that were connected before. This will have HUGE in-game consequenses.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

I have marched a MAR deep down into the Pacific with land moves, Borneo, Sumatra, and New Guinea all being connected. This is just from memory. There is an incredible chain of land hexes marine units can move along on the regular Wif Pacific map. Yes all of these are less effective than naval transport, however no invasions are done during movement, the notional units can become a non factor.

I'm also aware most of these moves between hexsides would require the MAR to flip, and in the new MWIF this is less likely to be the case.

The maps above disconnect some KEY island chains that were connected before. This will have HUGE in-game consequenses.

I am against "fixing" that, because I think it was abusive on the Pacific Map. This rule was designed on the European Map and on the European Map it is OK. If you draw the European Map at the Pacific Scale, then the MAR unit will be able to accomplish incredible feats too.

I think scaling down to the European map (nearly) for the Pacific portion of the map get this "island hoping" capacity back to its normal capabilities.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: abj9562

I could be wrong and I may be thinking of a different game but I think the island north of Hawaii was originally a game mechanic of the original WiF for aircraft movement to/from the USA box and as correctly stated did not actually exist.

I measured, and this mysterious island is 44 hexes from San Diego or Los Angeles.
San Diego or Los Angeles to Honolulu is 47 hexes.
Removing this island makes flying to Honolulu a rebase mission restricted to 16-ranged planes. The mysterious island allowed 15-ranged planes to fly here.

Anyway, both are A LOT more than what it was with the WiF FE maps and the America Map : 34 MP (32 for Los Angeles) (18 from San Diego to the edge of America Map (16 for Los Angeles) + 10 to change maps (14.1.2) + 6 from the edge of the Pacific Map to Honolulu).

With the America Minimap it was 42 MP (30 from Los Angeles to the edge of America Map + 6 to change maps (14.1.2) + 6 from the edge of the Pacific Map to Honolulu) to Fly from Los Angeles to Honolulu.

Real flying distance is 4,210 km (Google Earth). This makes for a MWiF scale of 90 km (4210 / 47) per hex.

The average scale of km per hex on the MWiF maps is 85 km, if I use this scale Honolulu should be 50 hexes from San Diego, so I think that the MWiF map is once again the most correct of the 3 possibilities. Moreover, this 47 hexes distance can be seen as generous (compared to the 50 hexes given by the average scale), so I think that this mysterious island should be deleted.

ORIGINAL: abj9562
Oh I definitely agree the island does not exist. My only concern is play balance. So long as the original intent to get a certain amount of aircraft in/out of the Hawaian islands during turn X is maintained would be my only concern.

Play balance is the critical aspect of this game. So long as we do not sacrafice balance for eye candy then I am happy.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I want their learning curve to be a gentle climb, and not require pitons, ropes, and Sherpa guides.

ORIGINAL: Rexor
I don't want to be a fly in the ointment, but aren't the sea areas too vast on this scale? Or is this just picking nits? I mean, compared to some of those in the Atlantic and Med, these babies are truly immense on the new Pacific scale.

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

As far as Islands go in the Pacific, the navigation maps even in the mid 50's were not all that complete and a many small Islands were either not on the maps or noted as 'reported by USS xxx in 1952 to be 15 miles NW of the printed location etc.

This is real, I was there on merchant ships at the time.

Lars

ORIGINAL: Rexor

I don't want to be a fly in the ointment, but aren't the sea areas too vast on this scale? Or is this just picking nits? I mean, compared to some of those in the Atlantic and Med, these babies are truly immense on the new Pacific scale.

ORIGINAL: Neilster
It's an interesting point, but even though the sea areas are now larger, the movement rates are now unified (ie higher in the Pacific than they were). Anyone got an analysis of how this pans out?

I guess playtesting will reveal any major bugs.

Cheers, Neilster

I think some of those 'shoals' and 'rocks' might be a bit small to have any military significance, i.e. long enough to build an airstrip on? It seems there are more land hexes now between Pearl and Midway?

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I think some of those 'shoals' and 'rocks' might be a bit small to have any military significance, i.e. long enough to build an airstrip on? It seems there are more land hexes now between Pearl and Midway?

If there are islands that we want to keep (for the beauty) on the WiF map, but that we think are adding too much of an Air Base to the game, the simplest solution is to make this island a mountain hex.

This is also the most logical, because the only reason I can think of, that would lead to an island not having an airfield built on it, is that it is too mountainous.

I think of the Bonin island while writing this, because I'm currently preparing a map showing Japan, plus the Bonin, plus the Marianas, from Korea to Marcus Island. Should be ready for me to upload here soon.

ORIGINAL: abj9562

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I think some of those 'shoals' and 'rocks' might be a bit small to have any military significance, i.e. long enough to build an airstrip on? It seems there are more land hexes now between Pearl and Midway?

If there are islands that we want to keep (for the beauty) on the WiF map, but that we think are adding too much of an Air Base to the game, the simplest solution is to make this island a mountain hex.

This is also the most logical, because the only reason I can think of, that would lead to an island not having an airfield built on it, is that it is too mountainous.

I think of the Bonin island while writing this, because I'm currently preparing a map showing Japan, plus the Bonin, plus the Marianas, from Korea to Marcus Island. Should be ready for me to upload here soon.

True mountainous land would be a reason but there are a host of other geological reasons also. You dont just say here is some flat land of dimensions X by Y now build an airfield. Other reasons are water sources, ports, shoals, barriers, and transfer of supplies to the island. There were a host of reasons why many islands went undefended because of their tactical and strategic unimportance. However in a game play balance is the ultimate reason to include or not include a land mass etc... I am beginning to worry that all these changes with no testing could affect the game play. Please do some game testing on these changes as this will alleviate the ground swelling of tension in the community.

If there are islands that we want to keep (for the beauty) on the WiF map, but that we think are adding too much of an Air Base to the game, the simplest solution is to make this island a mountain hex.