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RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:44 pm
by ctangus
ORIGINAL: viberpol
ORIGINAL: ctangus
I'm not seeing massive results at all. I've been doing small night bombing attacks against Mandalay for several weeks. Recon's reporting about 650-700 aircraft at a level 6 field, and I'm maybe averaging only 2 or 3 enemy planes destroyed per attack. From my last turn - this was by far my most successful attack:
BTW: Chuck, Your reckon is wrong
I do not have over 600 planes in Mandalay like you suggested.
It's slightly over the normal rule of 50xAF size -- because
of reckons and mobile bunch of level bombers I have nothing to do
with....
really
You mean the damned Brits are lying to me? If I had any political points I'd replace them all! [;)] Thanks for the intelligence.
Do you think the results are excessive? I don't want to take advantage of an exploit, but they honestly seem reasonable to me.
Don't worry, I'll be back during the day soon so you can slaughter another 50 P-38s. [:)]
EDIT: That does change my math. Roughly 2% losses on my most successful attack. And if it's not overstacked, or only barely, the losses on the ground should be lower.
ORIGINAL: alfrake
In my experience, the combat report of night bombing damage is seriously understated. I expect double the report (or more) destroyed plus some extra damaged.
I didn't think of that. I'm curious now - I've got saves of the last few turns & will check the intel reports. Of course that won't show damaged planes.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:50 pm
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
Playing allies in June 42. The Japanese player is using nighttime bombing attacks to hit manpower and runways in China. Beyond the obvious of using Blen IFs to fly night patrol, what else can the allied player do to stop this?
Problem solved. I'm hiring one of Fabertong's agents to buy saki for all the pilots before their nightly mission. [:D]
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:21 pm
by BrucePowers
Yeah, but if it's one of Faber's agents it's probably fish flavored saki. Who's going to drink it?[:D][:'(]
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:19 pm
by dtravel
The Japanese like fish. (Just another example of their national insanity. [:'(])
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:50 am
by benway9
my opponent in PBEM is plastering all my jap units in Burma with massive heavy bomber raids from India. starting in early '42 until present (8/42), he is using continuous heavy bombers including USAAF every day. i have since abandoned burma for the time being. which probably means its a dead theatre for me.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:59 am
by EUBanana
I never really used night bombing much myself, especially with Allied 4-E bombers.
The Jap has no effective counter to daylight raids with massed 4E bombers let alone night raids. And 100 B-17s at 6000' during the day will just annihilate a base. The bombers will take more casualties sure, but within a week it'll be obliterated and the VPs very much in the Allied favour.
I used night bombing only when I had a fairly puny force which wasn't up to the job of surviving daylight raids. Consider those Jap divebombers, seems to me you should be almost happy he's going for you at night, if he went for you during the day he'd do quadruple the damage and, it being China, you wouldnt be able to really do much about it anyway I suspect.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:58 am
by alfrake
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
The Jap has no effective counter to daylight raids with massed 4E bombers let alone night raids. And 100 B-17s at 6000' during the day will just annihilate a base.
Not in the game I was playing (July 42). 50+ Zeroes, 75+ Nates and Oscars over Rangoon chew that up pretty good. Not too many kills, but the majority of those 4Es go home damaged without leveling the airbase. Most importantly, they cannot fly every day. Don't underestimate the Nates and Oscars, they may suck, but Zeroes don't get a lot of 4E kills either.
If you have a whole lot of significant targets for those 4Es, they can selectively bomb each target and do noticable damage. (My various oil centers near Kendari are gone). But if there is only one target of significance (like Rangoon), Japan can put sufficient CAP over it in 1942. Even more so, when we gave up, my CAP was about to get a lot better as the first Tojo squadron was about to finish repairing and deploy (avg skill 82, the 3rd best fighter squadron in the Empire). It is only the night bombing destroying huge numbers without noticable loss that made Rangoon untenable.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:26 pm
by EUBanana
ORIGINAL: alfrake
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
The Jap has no effective counter to daylight raids with massed 4E bombers let alone night raids. And 100 B-17s at 6000' during the day will just annihilate a base.
Not in the game I was playing (July 42). 50+ Zeroes, 75+ Nates and Oscars over Rangoon chew that up pretty good. Not too many kills, but the majority of those 4Es go home damaged without leveling the airbase. Most importantly, they cannot fly every day. Don't underestimate the Nates and Oscars, they may suck, but Zeroes don't get a lot of 4E kills either.
If you have a whole lot of significant targets for those 4Es, they can selectively bomb each target and do noticable damage. (My various oil centers near Kendari are gone). But if there is only one target of significance (like Rangoon), Japan can put sufficient CAP over it in 1942. Even more so, when we gave up, my CAP was about to get a lot better as the first Tojo squadron was about to finish repairing and deploy (avg skill 82, the 3rd best fighter squadron in the Empire). It is only the night bombing destroying huge numbers without noticable loss that made Rangoon untenable.
Well, thats a hell of a lot of fighters at one base. If you night bomb and even 1% casualties are scored then it would be a reasonable amount of attrition. Personally, even then, I would prefer daylight raids and limit it to one raid a week for morale/fixing purposes. I suspect it would do greater damage, and B-17s can and do shoot down Jap fighters, so if anything the pilot attrition would be greater still. In the beginning of the war they are better at it than most of the Allied fighters it seems to me!
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:08 pm
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
Consider those Jap divebombers, seems to me you should be almost happy he's going for you at night, if he went for you during the day he'd do quadruple the damage and, it being China, you wouldnt be able to really do much about it anyway I suspect.
Not necessarily so. If he would make daytime attacks, I would make sure the AVG was there to greet him. [:D] Really, sending in that many bombers largely unescorted is asking for a massacre. Even the Chinese fighters could take them on. I have a couple of units already well trained.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:00 pm
by viberpol
ORIGINAL: ctangus
I'm not seeing massive results at all. I've been doing small night bombing attacks against Mandalay for several weeks. Recon's reporting about 650-700 aircraft at a level 6 field, and I'm maybe averaging only 2 or 3 enemy planes destroyed per attack. From my last turn - this was by far my most successful attack:
ORIGINAL: viberpol
BTW: Chuck, Your reckon is wrong
I do not have over 600 planes in Mandalay like you suggested.
It's slightly over the normal rule of 50xAF size -- because
of reckons and mobile bunch of level bombers I have nothing to do
with....
ORIGINAL: ctangus
You mean the damned Brits are lying to me? If I had any political points I'd replace them all! [;)] Thanks for the intelligence.I'm curious now - I've got saves of the last few turns & will check the intel reports. Of course that won't show damaged planes.
Night bombing is more like a nuisance now, 'cos I have no way of shooting these
bombers today (tonight). Today you destroyed 4 planes (even if only
two reported). This impossibility of hitting more bombers bothers me
more than the outcome of your bombing... I have no night fighters till
may '43 or so..
My reckon says you have now 680 planes in Dacca -- and this seems more
correct, but still an exaggeration
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:35 pm
by esteban
We just don't allow any night-bombing at all in my PBEM game. Its still too uber.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:10 pm
by saj42
I only use British bombers to make night attacks - and then only against industry and manpower - NOT airfields. It keeps a 'historical feel' to this aspect of the game.
RE: How do you stop nightime bombing attacks
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:28 am
by SGT Swanson
After reading through the thread, it sounds to me like it really doesn't matter who you put on Night missions as any aircraft can fly them. What you really need to do is limit not how many squadrons can fly them, but what types of planes can fly them. At least in the early stages. There are squadrons that start the game as night fighters/bombers for the Allies, but not the Japs. I know from experience at least with PBYs it takes at least 70 exp or better before they start becoming effective.
I wouldn't consider this a gamey move as the counter is as stated to bomb those airfields durring the day. Or to limit both sides to more historical units being used.