Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Awe shucks

PZB is an excellent player but India is irrelevant to SOPAC campaign not securing Tarawa/Lunga and PM was fatal .... as you will soon discover <evil laugh>

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: pauk
not true.

What's not true? I've been very careful to make sure I've gotten the allied numbers correct so I'm a bit miffed you're saying I've lied or mislead people somehow.

I've seen lots of rationalizations from the Japanese but the only person who has actually posted their aircraft production totals was for a game that was a complete blowout for Japan and is lost by the end of 42. Not an average example by any means. How about posting your production totals Pauk. How many first line fighters are you pumping out?

But my original point wasn't to slam Japan, it is simply to highlight how inadequate allied aircraft production is across the board. Especially given the horrendously bloody nature of the game engine. Yes F6F's are a problem, but so are just about every other allied plane.

Jim

ORIGINAL: captskillet

Now I usually stay out of these debates, but for Japan to outproduce the US in anything, esp. by the last half of the war when their merchant fleet was shot to hell is CRAZY [:-] [X(] !!!

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
I suspect you saw it otherwise and were waiting on me to take risks and push the pace something I was not willing to do without those 40mm Bofors upgrades in the face of Zero Superiority.

Interesting how it works out.
Andy

OK Joint Allied fleet then !!!!

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

No its a fair point new gps do get planes when they arrive but disbanded gps do draw planes when they re appear its only reinforcing gps that get free planes

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I took the time to tabulate total allied aircraft production for the entire game. I then separated the US figures from all the rest, so in the first line there are a total of 1656 Allied factories, of which 780 of them produce US planes.

Start date.....Total factories.....US factories.....Upgradeable factories...Months in production

Start............1656...................780................340.............................45
Jan42...........315....................245................150..............................44
Mar42...........50.....................0....................0..................................42
Jun42...........200....................130................100..............................39
Jul42............90.....................90..................0...................................38
Sep42..........30......................0...................0....................................36
Oct42..........100.....................100...............80...................................35
Dec42..........110...................80..................0.....................................33
Jan43..........643....................415................250.................................32
Feb43..........150...................150................0......................................31
Mar43..........20.....................20.................0......................................30
Apr43..........150....................100...............0......................................29
May43.........100....................10.................0......................................28
Jun43..........90......................90.................0......................................27
Jul43...........754....................669................0......................................26
Sep43..........395....................355...............75....................................24
Oct43...........55.....................5...................0......................................23
Nov43...........300...................250...............0......................................22
Dec43...........194...................144...............0......................................21
Jan44............155...................100...............0......................................20
Mar44...........105....................105...............75....................................18
Apr44...........180....................180...............75....................................17
May44...........90.....................0...................0......................................16
Jun44............50.....................0...................0......................................15
Jul44.............50.....................0...................0......................................14
Sep44...........150...................150................75....................................12
Dec44...........40.....................0....................0.....................................9
Jan45...........90.....................40...................0......................................8


Total production is then calculated by multiplying the number of factories times the number of months that factory is in production through Aug45. So for example starting factories are multiplied by 45 months. Edit: I should note upgradeable factories are already included in the first two columns totals so don't count them again. I simply added them as a separate stat line to show how many allied factories eventually turn obsolete.

Total production:

200,069

Total US production:

126,863

Now we know Japans industry can build them about 140,000 total planes through the war given the numbers posted by Admiral Laurent in this thread:

tm.asp?m=1217199&mpage=7&key=

Now with the 'historic conquests', the points available for AC production will be 5200 per day... Production of 3500-4000 AC a month, around 45 000 per year. That is 50% more that what historical Japan did.

So this proves beyond a doubt that Japan is far out producing the allies throughout the entire war given the fact that about 80% of allied factories are fixed and end up producing obsolete aircraft for most of the game. While Japans factories stay upgraded and keep producing top line aircraft for the entire game.

Japan is probably out producing the allies in first line aircraft by 2-1 or better for the whole game given the facts of these numbers.

So let’s take the year 1944 for example. Let’s assume all previous upgradeable factories are upgraded to front line equipment. Let’s assume that all factories producing aircraft from Jul43 are also producing front line aircraft.

So we start 1944 off with 1428 regular factories from Jul-Dec 1943 and an additional 920 upgraded factories from prior to Jul 1943. This gives us a total of 2348 factories plus another 155 that go online in Jan 1944 totaling 2503 factories. Here are the production numbers for front line aircraft in 1944 given these assumptions:

Jan44.....2503 factories times 12 months = 30,036
Mar44.....another 105 factories times 10 months = 1050
Apr44.....another 180 factories times 9 months = 720
May44.....another 90 factories times 8 months = 720
Jun44.....another 50 factories times 7 months = 350
Jul44.....another 50 factories times 6 months = 300
Sep44.....another 150 factories times 4 months = 600
Dec44.....another 10 factories

Total 1944 allied production = 33,786

Of this about 18k or so would be US production. I also seriously doubt all of these factories are producing front line equipment.

And according to Admiral Laurent’s figures quoted above, Japan will produce 45k+ aircraft in the same period. Of which 100% is front line equipment due to 100% upgradeable factories.

Jim

ORIGINAL: pbear
What happens if you do the same sort of analysis on pilot "production" and quality?

In 1942 USN pilot training programs started to ramp up; 10,869 aviators received their wings of gold, almost twice as many as had completed the program in the previous 8 years. In 1943 there were 20,842 graduates; 1944, 21,067; and, with then end of the war in sight, 1945 ended with 8,880 graduates. Thus in the period 1942 to 1945, the USN produced more than 2.5 times the number of pilots as the IJN. And each of those USN pilots went through a program of primary, intermediate, advanced, and, for the carrier pilots combat preparation in RAGs before heading west. New pilots were arriving for action in USN carrier squadrons with as many as 600 hours flying under their belts and as much as 200 hours of that in type.

As near as I can put together, during the course of the war the IJN trained some 24,000 pilots of all stripes. Roughly 18,900 of them, and their pre-war compatriots, were killed, either in action, training, or operationally. Over 2500 of these were killed in suicide attacks.

The CPTP/WTS program was phased out in the summer of 1944 but not before 435,165 people, including hundreds of women and African-Americans, had been taught to fly. The CPTP admirably achieved its primary mission, best expressed by the title of aviation historian Dominick Pisano's book—“To fill the skies with pilots.”

ORIGINAL: DFalcon

I may be missing it in this information but I see no accounting of replacement airgroups. There are a lot of planes entering the game through replacement groups and they should be counted. Replacement groups for the allies do not take planes from the pool so should be added to the number of planes produced.

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


"Now with the 'historic conquests', the points available for AC production will be 5200 per day... Production of 3500-4000 AC a month, around 45 000 per year. That is 50% more that what historical Japan did. "


And according to Admiral Laurent’s figures quoted above, Japan will produce 45k+ aircraft in the same period. Of which 100% is front line equipment due to 100% upgradeable factories.

Jim

ORIGINAL: VSWG

I can provide the numbers for CHS: the totals of all Allied AC entering the game through airgroups are:


Total: 16 948