Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: benpark

Two questions:

What does the "normalize" setting do to the model?

What is the building capacity code- floors/capacity or capacity/floors?

Normalise adjusts the model so that it conforms to the underlying terrain. Eg if you place a house on a hill then it will sit normal to the hull and not "cut" into it. Not something you use for houses, but may do for animals, trees, brushes etc

The building codes are explained in the doc

Building Type / # Squads / # floors

So

Heavy / 2 / 2

Implies a heavy building type with 2 squad capacity and 2 floor of height.

Regards

S.

Ok ... Loaded up 0.8b .... Wicked Awesome! Thank you sir!

I took a randomly generated HM from the HME program (seperate) ... loaded up Kharkov_L1a terrain map ... slapped some structures in ... made masks out of every color on the AI map ... made some trees ... presto.

Screenshot shows it all ... Amazing how using the same AI map with a different look makes an entirely new map.

I just need to tweak the Mask Blur and Transparency a bit ... Do you have any recommendations? I used 0.5/0.6 for this one.
By the way, I remember from my Singling map that the order of the masks makes a difference ... ie, roads last so they sit on top of everything.
Also, I need to tweak the building HM locations so they sit flat ... but it's a keeper ... with a few other AI map adjustments.

Rob

One trick for the terrain textures is to assign two textures to a single code- roads ferinstance.

Use the standard cobblestone texture for the road, and have it be the dominant texture with the variable setting. Then assign a dirt texture, and have it be lower down on the opaque quality, but extend the "bleed" to be beyond that of the road (2.0 or more). That gives you the nice dirty sides of the roads, and makes the map look more realistic.

For paths leading to houses and such, I'm using that same dirt texture, and hand drawing them in.

Stridor, any chance of including the current existing mod buildings (Biffa's) in the next release?

ORIGINAL: benpark

One trick for the terrain textures is to assign two textures to a single code- roads ferinstance.

Use the standard cobblestone texture for the road, and have it be the dominant texture with the variable setting. Then assign a dirt texture, and have it be lower down on the opaque quality, but extend the "bleed" to be beyond that of the road (2.0 or more). That gives you the nice dirty sides of the roads, and makes the map look more realistic.

For paths leading to houses and such, I'm using that same dirt texture, and hand drawing them in.

Interesting trick ... good one Ben! When you have a moment can you write up an example ... like this below ...

road ... Blur value / Opacity
road2 ... Blur value / Opacity

And make a screenshot of the road for a visual idea of how the numbers work ...

Thanks!

Rob

EDIT NOTE ... I missed your screenshot from your previous post .... Ok I see now ... what values did you use for that?

I don't change the X or Y factors. I change the "R" factor so that the map doesn't look repetitive.

Concrete (main road texture)- R:100 0.5 0.9

Dirt: R:45 1.5 0.2

Mud R:50 0.5 0.7

I have mud running alongside of the road, due to historical problems I am hoping to simulate for these battles. It helps to make the texture look better, as well- but you could do nearly as well with just the dirt texture.

Great ... I'll have to try those values ... I forgot about the rotation.

By the way, have you ever heard of the game called Steel Fury : Kharkov 1942 ?

It's a 3D FPS game ... english version due out in September.

Goto http://www.steelfury.info/ to get the demo ....

It's great for getting a first person view of the battlefield and how the terrain looked .... see screenshot below .

If we can only get it to look like that ... sure is worth a try ... albeit using the billboard trick.

Rob

Stridor,

Yet another idea ... regarding masks ...

Do you think that a 3rd MAP called the "Texture Map" can be loaded into MM?

It would be 1000x1000 and it would be capable of using all 256 colors ... This way, you can assign terrain masks that are seperate from the AI map. So, basically you don't use the AI map (you could by loading a dupe in) to build your masks.

So, the order is ...

1) HM for the height mesh
2) AI for the terrain map (reference for structures and vegetation placement)
3) TM (texture map) ... to make the masks.

Any thoughts?

Rob

Stridor,

I'm getting an HM "shift" and strange colors after I sculp new terrain and hit the reset button ...

Screenshot shows Left (before) ... and Right (after).

Browsing and loading the HM again returns it back to normal.

Graphics card problem maybe? I dunno.

Rob

If it is ok with SAF_Biffa I will include all his work in a new MM update.

In theory you could get the SS for Steel Fury above in PCK but it would be a bit of work.

About that Reset error you are gettin Rob I can't replicate it, sorry.

Regards

S.

ORIGINAL: Mraah


Stridor,

I'm getting an HM "shift" and strange colors after I sculp new terrain and hit the reset button ...

Screenshot shows Left (before) ... and Right (after).

Browsing and loading the HM again returns it back to normal.

Graphics card problem maybe? I dunno.

Rob

Actually did manage to find and fix the bug thanks Rob.

ORIGINAL: Stridor
Actually did manage to find and fix the bug thanks Rob.

Ok ... great! I just got off work so I'm glad I checked the thread before testing some graphic changes on my side.

And ... disregard my idea about the Texture Map ... I discovered a new technique.

If I want extra masks to detail certain areas with more textures I'm going to use colors that wouldn't be used in the final AI map. Such as the uncommonly used colors ... light snow, snow, deep snow, wall, etc. Then I'll go back and properly set the color at the end.

I'm looking forward to your next update so I can work (test) the height tools.

Rob

Rob,

You can test the height tools now

The reset bug only occurs if you move the window around after a HM has been loaded. It doesn't affect anything else and is now fixed. The new version will have faster build times and undo/redo tools. I will incorporate SAF_Biffas stuff as well once I get his permission.

Regards

S.

Now ... I have another bug or shall I say ... interesting effect.

I just reloaded my MM-1a map and made a change to the M_Ht0 and Ht1 values.

The values were changed :

M_Ht0 ... from 10 to 0
M_Ht1 ... from 45 to 35

Before it built the map it asked me if I wanted to keep the old structures ... I clicked YES.

Well, it kept the old structures BUT it left them at the original Y values ... ie, the structures are now above the ground. I know one of the other guys mentioned this a few weeks ago ... I think.

Perhaps instructing the program to "ground" the structures everytime you build would make a nice feature? ... I know I can ground them myself in SE but you know how smelly humans are lazy ... like me [:)].

The screenshot shows this but you know what I mean ... I did change some masks but I don't believe it had anything to do with it.

Thanks,
Rob

Rob,

The "keep the old existing structures?" dialog box will probably be removed in the future. There is just no way to reliably keep your old SE changes through an entire new build process, Yes I could ground the old structures, but my argument is that if you have made that big of a change to the HM you probably shouldn't been adding fixed structures at that stage anyway [;)]

So the order is make your AI map. Edit you maps in MM once you get them right if you then move on to SE and externally edit the masks you can't easily go back to MM and keep all your old changes.

As I said I think it is an option that I will remove. It did have its uses once, but now that you can do pretty much everything in MM I think it is far less useful.

Regards

S.

EDIT: ATM I am concentrating on speeding up the build process by doing smarter builds. I can get the build time back down to ~ 10-15 seconds in most cases again [;)]

Understood ...[:)]

Also, I have yet another interesting event ...

When you edit your map and select YES when asked to open SE ... the SE program will load but it will pause on the "open" menu for ~20 seconds (maybe even longer) before loading the map up in SE. Now, I figure that MM is overwriting the files and SE is waiting for the "go ahead" to load the map. It's not a problem but it's nerve racking to see it "wait" for a bit while this process is going on. The first time this happened I thought it hung ... good thing I had the patience to wait.

Thanks again ... I'm going to do some more testing tomorrow afternoon ... calling it a night.

Rob

First map I've tried with the latest build is nearly done. Mostly went without a hitch. I just ran into the reloading the heightmap problem that was previously mentioned, but that seems to be slated for a fix.

The ability to add models to the map from the MM is a seriously great step for taking the pain out of doing the maps. I just need to code the structures in the SE, and touch up the textures by hand (add paths to houses, etc), and this one's done. On to the next one. I'll post any problems, but it seems pretty solid. If the load times come down a bit, all the better.

One small issue- the placeable structures are placed in mapname_structures, but not in the standard mapname_children folder in the SE.

This is good, as they will be stored for the MM, but it means that the models are no longer selectable by clicking on them on on map in the SE. Not having the buildings selectable on map in the SE means clicking through many models to find the right one. Not the end of the world, but the SE is a little quirky, and the fewer clicks, the better. With urban maps, this gets carpal tunnel-tastic.

Is there a way to have the program write the models to both directories, or will this cause issues?

ben,

I don't have a problem with selecting the buildings in SE.

Are you naming these buildings yourself in MM or are you having MM select the names with the Name button?

I've been using the name button... as recommended by note #10 in readme.

By the way... you know you can code the buildings via MM right?

Rob

EDIT NOTE ... I'm also using the updated SE version, you got that?

I've given the structures my own unique names. I just tried saving new names with the "Name" button, and wasn't able to rename them.

I didn't see anything about coding the structures in the MM...how do you do this? How do you tell what the footprint of a building will be? I know that structures can be placed on the map, but I'm talking about the underlying "color" of the map.bmp. This, I'm assuming can only be done in the scene editor still?

SE= I meant Scene Editor. Is there a new version?

ORIGINAL: benpark

I've given the structures my own unique names. I just tried saving new names with the "Name" button, and wasn't able to rename them.

Hmmm, I dunno then ... you're confirming them with the check box right?

I didn't see anything about coding the structures in the MM...how do you do this? How do you tell what the footprint of a building will be? I know that structures can be placed on the map, but I'm talking about the underlying "color" of the map.bmp. This, I'm assuming can only be done in the scene editor still?

SE= I meant Scene Editor. Is there a new version?

Oh, I see what you mean, the color .. yeah, only scene editor. I thought you meant the coding as in the # of squads and type of building.

Nevermind about the update ... I was thinking the scenario editor ... yeah. For some reason the maps made with MM seem to run better in SE and I was totally wrong on what was updated ... my bad.

Rob