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I find this very interesting, Joe.  When you guys finalize your fleet dispositions, can you share them with us here?

Sure, but it needs to be here (and not ini your AAR where I almost posted the above) since we don't what Rob and Tony to see all this (yet!).

Continuing the discussion ... here is a snap shot of the carrier and battleship dispositions at a point in time, April 1943, from the Moses game. Of course in a real game, the dispositions don't always match the theory.

The three fleet idea is barely recognizable in these dispositions. Seven of the BBs are in the Western Fleet, 3 in the Northern fleet and two in the Home Islands under repair. As to the carriers, 3 CVE and 1 CV (Hiryu) are in the Aleutians, 2 CV (Hiyo/Junyo) are in the Western fleet. All the others are in the Home Islands under repair.

Remember all the below material is from the Moses game - NOT the current game - but I am mulling over this material as we plan our plan for the future in our current game.

Start of April 1943.


Japanese Naval Situation:

Carriers:
Akagi/Kaga: In Home Islands, Kaga will upgrade April 43 this should be brief, The Akagi is ready. We hope the Division will proceed to sea within the week. Both airgroups are complete.

Shokaku/ZuiKaku: In Home Islands. Zuikaku is completing upgrade and her airgroup is complete. Shokaku has completed upgrade but needs one more Kate and crew to be ready for sea. This Division should also proceed to sea this week.

Soryu: In Home Islands damage now 10 but then still needs to upgrade. Ready for sea is 14-20 days.
Hiryu: In the Aleutians, flagship of the Northern Fleet Carrier Group. Yesterday in action her strike group shot down 3 Kittyhawks and 1 Hurricane and sank 3 American LSTs, and damaged a CLAA and an AK. For the loss of 2 Vals and 1 Kate.

Junyo/Hiyo: At Singapore undergoing upgrade.

Shoho/Zuiho/Ryujo/Ryuho: In Home Islands refitting. Airgroups will need to accept raw replacements, so the four CVLs will proceed to Soerabaja to train up their airgroups. Ready for sea within the week.

Taiyo/Unyo/Hosho: Part of Northern Fleet Carrier Group. In action for past 4 days against US aircraft and ships off the Aleutians.
Chuyo: Under repair at Miazuru. Sysdmg=32

Battleships:
Musashi: In the Aleutians, flagship of the Northern Fleet Surface Action Group. Yesterday in action against enemy PT boats off Adak.
Yamoto: In Home Islands, preparing to upgrade. Ready for sea within a month.

Nagtao/Mutsu: Part of Northern Fleet SAG. Also in action yesterday against USN PTs.

Ise/Hyuga: Off Palembang enroute to Soerabaja to provide support to Northern Oz as necessary.

Fuso/Yamashiro: At Singapore, repairing minor damage while Junyo/Hiyo upgrade.

Kongo/Haruna/Hiei: At Rangoon, awaiting fuel, which is enroute off Singpore. Recently complete 3 bombardment runs to Akyab.

Kirishima: Under repair at Miazuru. SysDmg 10. Ready for sea in about 2-3 weeks.

Big question is where to deploy the main carrier force. While I would like to mass the carriers in one mob, I'm also not comfortable leaving either the Gulf Martaban or the Aleutians bare. Martaban has more LBA on our side, but also is the most critical sector. And currently at least, Moses seems to be allowing us to dominate at sea in this area. In the Aleutians, the fleet's presence seems to be a limiting factor for Moses. And we still haven't seen carriers or 4EB or P-38s (or Corsairs) in this theater so Moses seems comfortable running this as a side show. Over the next six months, we will see another 4 CVE, 2 CV, and 2 CVL join our fleet giving us a theoretical maximum strength of 24 carriers of all flavors. But by that point the Allies will probably have at least that many (counting all carriers of USN and RN). We certainly will not win the carrier race, but fleet in being has a good bit of delay potential and can actually do some damage, though the battles in the Aleutians are probably typical though scaled down a good bit.

Here is another snap shot from February 1943


Capital Ship Deployments Feb 1943

Aleutians
Akagi, Kaga, Yamato Group
Hosho, Taiyo, Chuyo, Unyo, Nagato Group
CenPac
Shokaku, Zuikaku Group
Ryujo, Shoho, Zuiho, Ryuho Group

Western Fleet
Musashi, Mutsu Group (enroute back to home islands)
Kongo, Hiei, Haruna Group (enroute back to home islands)
Ise, Hyuga Group (enroute back to home islands)
Junyo, Hiyo, Fuso, Yamashiro Group (at Rangoon)

Home Islands
Hiryu, Soryu, Kirishima Group (refitting)

Ah, finally I found the post that originates the idea of the three geographical fleets:


IJN 9/30/42


We are evolving into three Geographically based fleets - the need to concentrate the main fleet (and hence constitute KB) having evaporated at least for a time - with the demise of the Allied Carrier Force at Johnston Is.

Not wishing to use our carriers to challenge large concentrations of Allied airpower, until we have to, we will probably use them most effectively in the CENPAC and Aleutians areas. Hence I would expect the bulk of the carriers to be split between those two locations for about the next six months (through end of Q1 43).

Our three forward area fleets then are the Northern, Western and Central Pacific Fleets.

NORTHERN FLEET

Northern Fleet bases include Sapporo(Hokkaiado), Shikka(Sakhalin), with forward bases at Entorofu and Paramushiro in the Kuriles.

Sapporo is a L5 port but will build up to L9. Shikka is L8 building to L9. The 5F HQ has been deployed to Shikka and is 8 hexes from Paramushiro. But distance to Attu and Kiska is 19 and 20 hexes respectively, so to cover these hexes for combat we would have to forward deploy 5F HQ to Paramushiro or thereabouts. This is under consideration although it trades to benefits of 4 port shifts on ship repair/maintenance for the combat multipler of a command HQ.

We had till now been reluctant to build up the installations in the Aleutians, figuring the Allies could possibly take them back quickly with a well timed massive effort. However, we now have the freedom of action to base major fleet units near the Aleutians continuously and hence can support movement of engineers and regular resupply to the Aleutians. Thus building up of the airbases and ports becomes an option. And while the Allies can bring air power to bear here it cannot be on the same scale as in CBI due to lack of numbers of bases.

Kiska now has the 35IMB and the 17A HQ and hence has a credible defence. Forts are L6, L5, L5 respectively at Kiska, Amchitka and Adak with minefields 8000, 9000, 2000, 2000 at Attu, Kiska, Amchitka, Adak.

Currently the Nothern Fleet Contains:

Carrier Force: Deck Space = 101/86
CVE Taiyo: 23xA6M3(exp84)
CVE Chuyo:27xB5N(exp79)
CVE Unyo: 26xA6M3(exp81)
CVE Hosho: 5xA6M2(exp88), 5xB5N(exp83)

Battle Force:
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu

Cruisers:
CA Furutaka
CL Yubari
CL Kashima
CL Tama
CL Sendai
CL Natori
CL Kitakami
CL Oi
CL Tenryu

Destroyers: 41

Oilers: 1, plus 3 enroute from Western Fleet, plus 1 damaged.

Additional Transports, Cargo ships, tankers, minelayers, minesweepers, escorts and submarines as needed and avilable.

Enroute to the Northern Fleet

CVs: Hiryu, Soryu
BBs: Yamato, Musashi,
CAs: 2
DDs: 15




9/30/42


CENPAC

Major Bases are Truk, a level 9 with 4th Fleet HQ and Rabaul, a level 8 with 8th Fleet HQ. Forward Bases include Tulagi, a level 6 with SouthEast Fleet HQ, Kwajalein a Level 3 with 6F and Naru a L2 with Combined Fleet HQ.

Major focus at this point is supporting resupply of forward bases. The resupply of the forward bases will maximize the delay in the event of an Allied counterattack. The ability of the forward garrisons to hold on for a few days will buy time for the Fleet to arrive and perhaps drive off the attackers. The actually happened at Nanomea, so it is feasible.

We are also reversing our policy of avoiding building up of the foward bases and we will build up some of the airbases a bit. Again since we can support resupply, building up the bases will enhance the delay potential of the forward bases.

Carrier Force:
CV Shokaku: 23 Z, 20 V, 18 K
CV Zuikaku: 21 Z, 22 V, 21 K
CV Hiyo: 10 Z, 10 V, 10 K

CVL Shoho: 18 Z, , 12 K
CVL Ryuho: 25 Z
CVL Ryujo: 27 Z, , 19 K
CVL Zuiho: 18 Z, , 12 K

Battle Force:

BB Haruna
BB Kongo
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
BB Ise
BB Hyuga

Cruisers:

CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Myoko
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma
CA Suzuya
CA Kumano
CA Kako
CL Yura
CL Abukuma
CL Isuzu



DD: 32


Replenishment Group: 150,000 Fuel capacity

Additional Transport, Cargo, Tankers, minelayers, minesweepers, escorts and submarines as needed and available.




==================

Western Fleet

Major Bases: Singapore a Level 9 with Southern Fleet, Georgetown a level 6 with 2nd Fleet.

The primary purpose of the combat elements in this area is to protect the Gulf of Martaban. We will build of Sabang, Nicobar and Andaman as the seaward barrier covering the SRA.

We have gotten a bit more aggressive and have sent the fleet on night patrols twice through the Akyab hex with the intent of fighting the RN Bombardment force. We will continue intermittant patrols. Our 4 submarine minelayers run continuous minelaying operations between Georgetown and Akyab. And we hit 2 DDs during the last bombarment run and one the time prior. We also have 54 Nells with Zero escort sitting on the field at Tavoy in the event that the RN come closer.

We are beefing up Sea and Air Patrols in the Malacca straights, the enemy are still using this waterway as a submarine highway and we have to make this more expensive.

Battle Fleet:

BB Yamashrio
BB Fuso

Cruisers:

CA Atago
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Jintsu
CL Kuma
CL Tasuta

DD: 26

Oilers: 2

Of course in any such discussion - there is "theory" and there is "practice" and usually these will deviate. And what is "correct" greatly depends on what you are doing - and what your opponent is doing.

One key factor is Northern Oz. If the Japanese do not take out Northern Oz, then it will loom as a spring board for an offenseive into the Spice Islands, directly threatening the SRA. And despite our intentions, I'm not sure that this is much changed in AE from stock. We wanted to tone down the ability to mass supplies at Darwin early on. We removed the fictitious "Great North Australian Railway" - but by using the base supply draw buttons correctly, it is still possible to pull tons of supply North through Alice Springs and up to the Katerine/Darwin area. So in AE, it is still possible for the Allies to have massed airpower at Darwin early in 1942. And if you are facing a possible invasion of Timor, for example, then I think Mike's ideas for fleet distribution might be best. If the greater threat, to the SRA comes from Northern Oz, then ignoring the Solomons, Marshalls and Gilberts makes sense.

I always thought that sinking CV by subs (instead of old good CV vs. CV battle) is almost cheating. Still, good AAR though.

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

I always thought that sinking CV by subs (instead of old good CV vs. CV battle) is almost cheating. Still, good AAR though.

Hum, then you would not have liked "playing" (in the real war) against either the Germans, or the Americans or the Japanese, all of whom sank enemy aircraft carriers with submarines!

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Yup, the under garrison damage is much more thorough and reliable than the engineer/random damage.

This is one thing I would like to see changed.

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers
This is one thing I would like to see changed.

It will be!

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers
This is one thing I would like to see changed.

It will be!

In patch 2???

Has the Yorktown sunk yet?

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
In patch 2???

IIRC that is the next pending patch - so yup - that would be the one!

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers
Has the Yorktown sunk yet?

You'll have to ask that over on the jrcar side of the AAR, we have FoW turned on - so we will not know for sure for 6 months (game time).

Does that mean the sunk list for a certain day becomes 100% correct after 6 months ?

26-27 March 1942

Kuriles
Nik sent 2 Cruisers and 2 Destroyers into the Kuriles and caught 3 USN Destroyer transports in a surface action and sank them.

Java
Soerabaja falls to Nik's airborne assault. I see 92 good refineries still there - we need to reinforce to try to save as many of those refiners as possible!

Elements of my 21 IMB and 21ID are advancing to the East - we do see a smaller Dutch Mountain redoubt on our end of the Island - only 7 units compared to the 23 at Nik's end.

We flew some Oscars in to Batavia, our first LBA on Java.

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Does that mean the sunk list for a certain day becomes 100% correct after 6 months ?

It means the entry for a given ship will be corrected within six months.

28-29 March 1942

Kuriles
Nik's first counter landing goes in against the Marine Raiders in the Kuriles.

Java
On my end, two RCTs of the 21ID reach Bandoeng, which is a second smaller mountain recdoubt to which the allies have retreated. Also the IJA flew in elements of the 124 RGT to Soerabaja to join up with the Navy Paras, this brings the "garrison" of the city up to the minimum and stops the destruction of the resources and refineries.

Solomons
Another Nik counterlanding going in at Tulagi.

Taking out the Trash.........

[:D]

30-31 March 1942

Solomons
Nik re-takes Tulagi

Burma
We continue to advance against no opposition, though we see large numbers of troops over at Akyab.

China
We concentrate in the South against Wenchow and reorganize in the Center around Nanyang. The Chinese seem to be withdrawing around Nanyang but still have us cut off around the tri-city area.

Luzon
Allies are withdrawing back toward Clark and Manilla, we continuing our build up.

Java
We continue to unload at Batavia and continue to fly in reinforcements to Soerabaja.

01-02 April 1942

Fiji
Nik launches a series of carrier raids against the shipping around Fiji (eerily similar in timming to CF's activities!) but I think we were a bit disappointed with the haul. Only one big AP, but several AK and quite a few APD.

Burma
We slowly starting to build up an infrastructure in Central Burma to support some air power. This will be needed both in the short run to support an attack on Akyab as well as in the long run to sustain Burma as a buffer against Allied attacks against the SRA.

Java
My IGID has completed unloading and is heading to the front. At Singapore the 5ID is loading. We have four Mortar units, the 21ID, the 21 IMB and 25 Army HQ at the front in Java already. We flew an engineer to Soerabaja to help Nik repair the facilities.

China
We continue our pursuit of Chinese forces in the Nanyang area and our seige at Wenchow in the South. We out guessed the AVG for once and plotted a fighter sweep against the empty airbase at Wenchow. The AVG duly showed up to receive us and if I was reading the combat report correctly, we might have shot down Pappy !!!

Luzon
Our build up continues. Clark field was showing 75 damage on the airfield at the end of last turn, so we're keeping the AF there suppressed. We have moved in 4 more Sally Sentai, up from Malaya to help out. They will go into action in a few days.

Strategic
HA-35 production is at 292 and it is still not enough. We have 245 A6M in the pool so we are shutting down Zero production briefly. We have Helens and Rufe's starting production now and should be able to deploy our first Helen unit in about a month.

Pulling in of resources from Hokkaido and Sakhalin is a big business and we are ramping up farther and faster. Moving in more engineers and port troops to improve the ports. We have 2-3 large convoys departing the NRA each day. We (IJA) are also supporting Nik's activities in the Kuriles by moving in supplies and engineers.

We will convert some AKL to PB and some to ACM. We will restrict minelaying to the NRA for a while but need ACM up there to preserve the minefields. We have temporarily reployed a few unneeded ACM from Home Island ports to the NRA.