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RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:53 am
by jaw
ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge


so, how are Aircraft upgrades going to be handled ?, if you can't build what you want, how do you handle what you already got ?

Aircraft are subject to upgrade as soon as the model goes out of production and there is a sufficient accumulation of production of the new model to swap them out. Unlike say the tanks of a panzer division, an air group cannot contain two different models of aircraft at the same time.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:06 am
by jaw
ORIGINAL: thackaray

ORIGINAL: jaw

I don't think I explained river crossing adequately. The game scale is 10 miles to the hex and one week turns. At this scale crossing a river is merely a question of time not physical construction. Units pay a movement point cost to simulate the time it would take to cross the river. Bridges (temporary or permanent) are not represented on the map.

Thank you for your answers so far. I have a question about movement points when crossing a river in a hex that has already been captured and under your control.

If a unit not involved in the original crossing of a river in a hex that is now under your control, moves through that hex, what happens to it's movement points?

The scenario I have in mind is when a unit is setup up in defensive posture a few hexs away from the main front. That unit may be used to exploit any offensive gains by passing through a river hex (major/minor/frozen/unfrozen) which is now under your control. My current understanding based upon what has been explained, is that the original unit making the river crossing uses up a lot of movement points, to cross the river. It follows, that any other unit going through that hex, pays the same movement cost.

Has Gary and other designers thought that other units should pay a less cost in terms of movement points through a captured river hex? This would simulate, that the necessary brigdes have been built by the original unit making the crossing and do not have to be rebuilt.

The simplest way to explain this is to show you the movement point costs for crossing rivers:

.................................................................Motorized.............Non-motorized

Minor River hexside (not into enemy ZOC)..........+2..........................+1
Major River hexside (not into enemy ZOC)..........+4..........................+2
Minor River hexside (into enemy ZOC).................+6..........................+2
Major River hexside (into enemy ZOC)..............+24..........................+8

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:25 am
by BigDuke66
How big are air units usually?
Can I break them down like land units?

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:59 am
by Hard Sarge
ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

How big are air units usually?
Can I break them down like land units?

LW are Gruppen or Stab (with maybe a odd Staffel tossed in), SU is normally Polk, Axis Allies are more likely Escadrille/Squadron size

no, they are one unit and stay that way

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:16 pm
by ComradeP
Aircraft are subject to upgrade as soon as the model goes out of production and there is a sufficient accumulation of production of the new model to swap them out. Unlike say the tanks of a panzer division, an air group cannot contain two different models of aircraft at the same time.

Is there a safeguard to prevent exploitation of this rule?

For example: if an air group can't contain multiple types, it seems the quickest way to let an air group upgrade its aircraft according to what you describe is to make all the aircraft die, basically. Kill all the I-16's in an air group and in general supply the air group will automatically convert to some better plane?

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:20 pm
by Hard Sarge
LOL

that is a interesting idea, good luck trying to kill them all off :)

Ratas go down like , well, flying rats, as do Yaks and Migs and Laggs

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:48 pm
by jaw
ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Aircraft are subject to upgrade as soon as the model goes out of production and there is a sufficient accumulation of production of the new model to swap them out. Unlike say the tanks of a panzer division, an air group cannot contain two different models of aircraft at the same time.

Is there a safeguard to prevent exploitation of this rule?

For example: if an air group can't contain multiple types, it seems the quickest way to let an air group upgrade its aircraft according to what you describe is to make all the aircraft die, basically. Kill all the I-16's in an air group and in general supply the air group will automatically convert to some better plane?

Actually the reverse is true. You want to keep the old stuff flying as long as possible because Russian planes are better than Russian pilots. You want to have the Germans shooting down and bombing the old stuff while your pilots train up on the newer aircraft far in the rear. Even if the old planes are ineffective, killing them causes wear and tear on the Luftwaffe.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:39 pm
by Dili
No, that is an effect that would not be simulated at this scale.

Yep, 10 days is too much time to factor a relatively small tactical advantage.
but don't forget, the Russians had the submerged attack dogs waiting for that attack

Probably you didn't know but it did happened. For Barbarossa 18th Panzer Division got submersible tanks that were build for operation Sea Lion. The Divison tanks crossed Bug River underwater in 22 June 41 surprising Soviets. When local Soviet HQ could be convinced that Germans crossed the river with submerged tanks they were already a dozen miles too far...

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:20 am
by Sentinel Six
How does the game represent the damage and dislocation of German production capacity caused by the combined bomber offensive or loss of capacity through the Western Allies overrunning German territory?

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:20 am
by Hard Sarge
LOL

I haven't gotten that far yet !

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:55 am
by jaw
ORIGINAL: Sentinel Six

How does the game represent the damage and dislocation of German production capacity caused by the combined bomber offensive or loss of capacity through the Western Allies overrunning German territory?

Game production is net of the effects of the Allied bomber offensive and Allied advance.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:19 pm
by ComradeP
-Can the BBC (not the Brits)/VVS bomb German industrial zones/production areas?

-Do planes automatically get detached to the Reichsluftverteidigung, if so, is any part of the production flexible in that, although production totals are fixed in theory, detachment of more/better fighter aircraft+pilots means less impact of the Allied bomber offensive?

-In 1944, with the Soviets approaching the German border, do (by that time) Luftflotte Reich units appear in the German OOB, if so, at what strengths?

-If fighter units are withdrawn for the air war over Germany, at which strengths do they return if they did so historically? Can this be influenced in some way by the player (in other words: does the game always burn up a possibly elite Gruppe just because the rookies that were in the Gruppe in real life got smacked out of the air)? Same question for FlaK units and air command support units.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:12 pm
by jaw
ORIGINAL: ComradeP

-Can the BBC (not the Brits)/VVS bomb German industrial zones/production areas?

Yes, but unlikely to be very effective.

-Do planes automatically get detached to the Reichsluftverteidigung, if so, is any part of the production flexible in that, although production totals are fixed in theory, detachment of more/better fighter aircraft+pilots means less impact of the Allied bomber offensive?

No

-In 1944, with the Soviets approaching the German border, do (by that time) Luftflotte Reich units appear in the German OOB, if so, at what strengths?

How to handle transfers between fronts of Luftwaffe units has yet to settled upon.

-If fighter units are withdrawn for the air war over Germany, at which strengths do they return if they did so historically? Can this be influenced in some way by the player (in other words: does the game always burn up a possibly elite Gruppe just because the rookies that were in the Gruppe in real life got smacked out of the air)? Same question for FlaK units and air command support units.

Same answer, they have not determined this yet.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:31 am
by Iñaki Harrizabalagatar
Are units routed after combat or somehow limited in their capabilities after a defeat in combat?

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:59 am
by Hard Sarge
depends

you can have held, retreat, route, surrendered

and again, depends on what happened during combat, you may have a battle, where you lost 40 men, and no weapons or tanks, other battles you may lose 4000 men, 200 weapons and 50 tanks, and still hold the ground, but you are not going to be too strong the next turn on the attack

which so saying, you have different unit stances, Ready, unready, refit, reserve, frozen, depleted

so again, depending on what happens, your Ready Div, could go to a unready state/stance or even worse a depleted stance, you not doing much of anything, other then maybe following behind the line if that happens (you want to go to refit and try to build up the unit first)

but for retreat, you may lose a little and retreat and still be okay, you may lose a lot and not be okay, or you may route if you take too much, were too weak, or just failed too many morale checks

oddly, if you are vastly outnumbered, you seem to run away and take light losses

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:43 am
by paullus99
Another question -

The Germans were fairly good at determining where & when a major Soviet attack was going to take place - they would (sometimes) be able to pull back outside of the range of artillery & be better prepared to absorb the attack. Is that modeled in any way?

This was one important reason the Soviets used so much direct fire artillery (self-propelled), since there was no guarantee that the initial artillery barrages were going to do the job.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:56 pm
by jaw
ORIGINAL: paullus99

Another question -

The Germans were fairly good at determining where & when a major Soviet attack was going to take place - they would (sometimes) be able to pull back outside of the range of artillery & be better prepared to absorb the attack. Is that modeled in any way?

This was one important reason the Soviets used so much direct fire artillery (self-propelled), since there was no guarantee that the initial artillery barrages were going to do the job.

At a 10 mile to the hex/one week per turn scale that manuever is too tactical to be simulated. Personally, I think the tactic was not nearly as successful as the German commanders would like us to think given the history of the War. I can't think of a single major Russian offensive it actually stopped.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:38 am
by Iñaki Harrizabalagatar
ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

depends

you can have held, retreat, route, surrendered

and again, depends on what happened during combat, you may have a battle, where you lost 40 men, and no weapons or tanks, other battles you may lose 4000 men, 200 weapons and 50 tanks, and still hold the ground, but you are not going to be too strong the next turn on the attack

which so saying, you have different unit stances, Ready, unready, refit, reserve, frozen, depleted

so again, depending on what happens, your Ready Div, could go to a unready state/stance or even worse a depleted stance, you not doing much of anything, other then maybe following behind the line if that happens (you want to go to refit and try to build up the unit first)

but for retreat, you may lose a little and retreat and still be okay, you may lose a lot and not be okay, or you may route if you take too much, were too weak, or just failed too many morale checks

oddly, if you are vastly outnumbered, you seem to run away and take light losses
Ok, but if you get route result, is the unit routed? By that I mean it is out of the player control, retreating on their won, for instance.
You say there are different unit stances, those stances limit what the player can do with the unit. I assume frozen prevents you from doing anything with that unit until released, but what about unready? can you move or attack with an unready unit?

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:38 pm
by jaw
ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

Ok, but if you get route result, is the unit routed? By that I mean it is out of the player control, retreating on their won, for instance.

No, routed units have a zero combat value and reduced movement rate but otherwise are player controlled like any other unit.

You say there are different unit stances, those stances limit what the player can do with the unit. I assume frozen prevents you from doing anything with that unit until released, but what about unready? can you move or attack with an unready unit?

The only user selectable statuses are Ready, Refit, & Reserve. Players can shift units back and forth between these statuses. Frozen units are fixed in placed for a given number of turns usually specified by scenario. Unready units can be thought of as units re-organizing. They are less combat effective than ready units.

RE: War in the East Q&A

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:23 pm
by Ron
Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already, been searching the thread(s) but couldn't find any more info. I was rereading the developer's diary from February(!) this year and the last couple pages really caught my attention this time. I would like to hear/know more about the Leader Initiative/Administration and Supplies and resulting Movement points allocated to units - this seems like a great concept. How does this play out in the game on average and does it change over time, ie does the USSR get better Leaders as the war progresses to reflect their learning? Does one have to 'husband' supplies before launching an offensive? What about the Motor Pool described? Is it fixed or can it be built up? What are the variables besides distance from the railhead? Thanks.