Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Miller is a good sport, as in 1945 it is virtually impossible to score a tactical victory against the main body of the US Fleet (or A main body), and all losses are basically permanent. Once the IJN is done for, the game isn't as fun.

Yes, this is why I would like to see greater VP awarded for Japanese sucesses in late war. For example, an Allied carrier lost in 45 should be worth three or four times the VP than one lost in 42. This would give a Japanese player some incentive.

I just read about the Okinawa campaign which got little press due to events in Europe. But once the dust settlled the political and morale costs of the massive losses hit hard.

good point...makes one wonder how the american public would have felt reading that 100's of thousands of GI's were marching across China and not helping our "bretheren" in the PI...

not criticizing the operation...great job, CR

IMO, there should be some sort of VP adjustment, because unless the Japanese player wins auto-victory, it's pretty much impossible to win the game on VPs in 1945 if you play to the end. The Allies can score too many points from Strat bombing.

Most players know, though, how well or not the respective players did.

In this game, I think Miller made some mistakes early, and got critically behind on his conquest timetable. He settled for the defensive way too early. Since then though seems like he's been a tough customer.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


Before I turn my attention to that activity, I need to get and build coastal bases from which the Allies will engage in strategic bombing of Japan. Foochow, Wenchow, and Ningpo are awfully close to the Home Island.

That's the key to strat bombing IMO. The B-29 is the thouroughbred, but the B-24 is the workhorse. The -29 is a hangar queen in AE. Valauble due to bomb load and defense, but you don't get a lot of long-range missions per month out of one. Getting the -24s in range is really necessary to a successful campaign.

In the Downfall scenario I found I could get a good level of effort from the B29 IFF I didnt fly them at extreme range. I used them against closer targets until I got Formosa and then I put them into Formosa and Nthn PI and their availabilty and OPs losses were reasonable.

Dan, maybe giving them some short ranged milk runs into Canton or HK, or maybe some isolated base, could help their exp & morale grow before committing them to the HI. (And then I'd send in a smashing force, not small numbers)

1/18/45 to 1/25/45
 
SEAC:  The Allies continue pushing to the north and south, with a series of breakthroughs on the 27th - to the south, Alor Star and Khota Bharu fell; to the north, the coastal city of Ningpo fell and the key Japanese interior base at Kanhsien was taken.  The latter was particularly noteworthy because the Japanese garrison was nearly destroyed.  Something like 1,000 infantry and support squads went "poof."

China:  The Allies will continue to push in China, but they now have the bases they need for strategic bombing.  So the main effort switches to building up the airfields at Ningpo, Wenchow, and the two bases to the west.  The Allies will probe for additional bases, partly for the airfields and partly to seek and and destroy pockets of enemy resistance.

Map to follow in next post.

China in late January 1945.

Note: The Japanese lead is down to 500 points now.

1/26/45 and 1/27/45
 
There will be a bit of a lull in the action as the Allies bring forward additional troops and begin to consolidate their hold in eastern China.  The lull will not last long and it should end with a bang:

China:  A giant reinforcement convoy just unloaded the following troops at Haiphong:  1st Cavalry Division, 33rd Infantry Division, 6th Infantry Division, 9th Australian Division, 17th Oz Brigade, 25th Oz Brigade, 9th Marines, 766 Tanks, 713 Flame Tanks, plus support and engineers.  That's well over 2000 AV of experienced troops.  They will head by rail to Hengyang, near Changsha, and then by land to the front in China.  Their target is Nanchang, the important base east of Changsha.  Elsewhere, the Allies continue to move on Foochow and Kukong, with other movements intended to secure the LOC.

Carriers:  The Allies are rotating carriers in and out of the main battle group.  Bennington just arrived.  CV Intrepid and CVL Langley just left Capetown.  Several damaged carriers are heading to Capetown.

Task Force 138:  The Allied carrier TFs have been following TF 138 for more than a year now.  Through the heavy fighting in the central and west DEI, the breakout into the South China Sea, the invasion of Hainan Island and coastal China, the back-and-forth reinforcement convoys between the DEI and China, and the big engagements like the recent Battle of Hong Kong.  At this point TF 138 is fatigued and due to rest.  Here's her roster with SYS damage in parentheses:  CA Pensacola (12), CA Quincy II (6), and DDs Bryant (14), Cowell (24), Nicholas (5), Sampson (11), Anderson (10), Dunlap (2), Flusser (4), Selfridge (5), and Norman (12).  This TF never tasted defeat.

San Diego:  For the first time since the opening of the war, the Allies have emptied San Diego of troops. This was my main staging point for troops heading for SWPac.  Since all American troops have been heading to SWPac since the end of the Kuriles invasion back in June '43, this has been a busy port.  Added to the logjam was a chronic shortage of transports - I have lost alot during the game.  But so many, many transports have come on line over the past few months that I've been able to move all the troops to the front.

Points:  The Japanese lead is down to 400 points.  In the WitP game that Miller and I played, the Allies drew even a year earlier (January 1944).

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

San Diego:  For the first time since the opening of the war, the Allies have emptied San Diego of troops. This was my main staging point for troops heading for SWPac.  Since all American troops have been heading to SWPac since the end of the Kuriles invasion back in June '43, this has been a busy port.  Added to the logjam was a chronic shortage of transports - I have lost alot during the game.  But so many, many transports have come on line over the past few months that I've been able to move all the troops to the front.

Just for grins you should look ahead in your arrival queue at the ETO troops you get in later 1945. I don't think you'll get that far, but the totals are pretty amazing. In August 1945 I had begun a huge retro-move of about 200 transports back to the WC to try to haul all that manpower forward. My war ended before it got done, but it would have been a job. Like you, I had lost a LOT of sealift in that, my first game.

You're right, Bullwinkle.  There will be an abundance.  So, what will I do with them if I reach that point?
 
I think it will take about two months for the Alleis to build big strategic bombing airbases at Ningpo, Wenchow, and vicinity, and to eradicate pockets of resistance like Foochow, Amoy, Kukong, and (longer term) Canton and Hong Kong.
 
Once those tasks are complete, what will the Allies do with the huge number of (then) surplus troops in China, plus all the new guys available as Bullwinkle pointed out?
 
The logical (and most likely) target is Formosa.  The Allies will have nearby airbases and ports so that the operation wouldn't be risky.   It would just be a matter of bringing enough to vanquish the sizeable garrisons there - purely a mathmatical calculation.
 
If the Allies are feeling more frisky, an invasion of northeastern China or Korea might be a possibility.  This might make sense if it were to dovetail with Russian activation.
 
At this point I don't plan on an invasion of the Home Islands, but if the game is still going by late summer i may reconsider.

If I might be so bold to suggest (not that you need any advice), Tsushima I beleive has a AF SPS of 4. A grab here would allow F4U and F6F to join in the party over the HI. Just a suggestion

Thanks for the suggestion, Vettim.  I'll take a look at the area in conjunction with what needs I have for fighters to escort strategic bombers.  Partly this is influenced by the availability of the newly upgraded P-51s, which have a range of 25 (IE, the Allies can probably provide escort for strategic bombing when it ramps up in a month or two).

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You're right, Bullwinkle.  There will be an abundance.  So, what will I do with them if I reach that point?

I think it will take about two months for the Alleis to build big strategic bombing airbases at Ningpo, Wenchow, and vicinity, and to eradicate pockets of resistance like Foochow, Amoy, Kukong, and (longer term) Canton and Hong Kong.

Once those tasks are complete, what will the Allies do with the huge number of (then) surplus troops in China, plus all the new guys available as Bullwinkle pointed out?

The logical (and most likely) target is Formosa.  The Allies will have nearby airbases and ports so that the operation wouldn't be risky.   It would just be a matter of bringing enough to vanquish the sizeable garrisons there - purely a mathmatical calculation.

If the Allies are feeling more frisky, an invasion of northeastern China or Korea might be a possibility.  This might make sense if it were to dovetail with Russian activation.

At this point I don't plan on an invasion of the Home Islands, but if the game is still going by late summer i may reconsider.

Well, one of the attractive things about scen#2 is that it can go well into 1946 with some neat new weapons for both sides. It might be a good idea to discuss it with Miller and ask him to stick in there and you promise to make an assault on the Japanese mainland and not just sit off shore and pound him. I don't think any of us has seen an AAR with an actual invasion of the mainland. It might make your game fun for both of you again and we all get to lick our chops as you two prepare for a fight to the bitter end.

It certainly will provide a nice learning experience for all of us.

It will be late '45 before the Allies could conceivably be in a position to invade.  Before then I have to see to China and would also want to take Formosa, and then one of the following two (a) Okinawa or (b) the Kuriles and Sikhalin Island.  At that point I would then move on either Hokkaido or Kyushu.
 
Honestly, though, I don't expect the game to continue that long.  Since this is a navy-dominated game, once you don't have one it just isn't that much fun any longer.  Miller is tenacious and a faithful opponent, but I will understand whenever he reaches the point of conceding.

Here's something I can say with certainty:  Under Scenario Two, any Allied effort that limited strategic bombing bases to Tinian, Saipan, etc. would be doomed to utter failure.  Those islands are WAY too far from Japan to permit effective bombing.
 
The Allies are going to have to get much closer to Japan in order to have a chance:  Sikhalin Island, Luzon, Formosa, or China.
 
The quality of Japanese fighters and pilots and the high servicing requirements of B-29s make long-range use an exercise in major frustration for little return.

Has anyone done Korea in an AAR? I don't read very many; maybe it would be a first.

That cluster of airfields around Shanghai/Ningpo is perfect for B-24/-29/escort placement. Also, Shanghai and Hong Kong are 50+ repair yards, which are nice for repairing the occasional kami hit to your flattops or BBs. So, it might pay off to secure those sooner rather than later.

Korea, although I live in Keijo, looks to me like a strategic dead end.

Cheers,
CC

ORIGINAL: vettim89

If I might be so bold to suggest (not that you need any advice), Tsushima...

Plus of course the delicious symbolism.

just look at the Cities and go for the ones with high points and defenses that may have been compromised to support his defense. He probably could not get much out of Java , but Singapore and Manila might be marked down to 1/2 price. After you get your airbases set you might be able to grind down Hong Kong. You should have tons of artillery, lets see if bombardments have changed since the last patch. (begs the question, did you guys upgrade to the latest?)

Yes, we're fully upgraded.

The Allies are moving down the Malay peninsula with the ultimate objective of taking Singapore; from there they will move on to Sumatra; and then, if we're still playing, Java. Currently, I only have about 2000 AV involved in this advance, but I think it's important to keep up some pressure in the region. If I back of completely and permit Miller to get comfortable, his mind would start wandering and he'd come up with some kind of plan that would prove to be an inconvenience.

1/28/45 to 2/10/45

Arg! After taking moderate damage during the Battle of Hong Kong, CV Constellation retired to Samah, taking two more TTs from a sub. At that point, she was heavily damaged, but made port and everything looked "stable" for several weeks...until she up and suddenly sank. This came as shock because her 75 FLT damage remained the same, but someone must have left the sea cocks open.

General Sherman's Gambit: After traveling by train from Madras to Chittagong, thence by land to Siam, then across the jungle to Vietnam, then into China, Gordener's Horse Regiment severed all ties and made a dash into the interior of China west of Shanghai. Thus far the unit has taken two obscure dot hexes (one later recaptured by the Japanese). The unit is sniffing around for weaknesses, scouting for Japanese reinforcements on the move, and hopefully playing havoc with Japanese supply lines.

China: A huge Allied army is gathering at Nanchang, which has a defensive garrison of just five units. I expect this city to fall fairly soon. At that point, the Allies will have stabalized their northern perimeter and can choose the next major target - probably Hangchow near the coast. The Allies have strong armies on the move to Swatow and Foochow. Engineers and base forces are on the way to the big coastal cities (Ningpo and Wenchow) that will serve as strategic bombing bases.

SEAC: The Allies continue to roll down the Malay Peninsula - Georgetown, Khota Bharu and Taipang have fallen. I'm rounding up troops for the (eventual) siege of Singapore and sending them that way.

Carriers: The fleet carriers just finished a trip back to Balikpan to replace lost aircraft, top off the fuel tanks (which were critically low), and provide escort to the next wave of transports heading to China.

General Sherman's Gambit

Sherman did not leave any train tracks!