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RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 pm
by PaxMondo
HARD won't really feed the islands, and it isn't so much that the AI 'gets' supply. It is more about movement than more if you follow. And you need to go to VH for the AI to supply islands and other pockets.
The combat bonuses that the AI gets on VH are nothing to be scared of in a stock scenario. Truthfully, a PBEM opponent will get more bonuses than the VH AI opponent will in most cases. The PBEM opponent will choose better commanders, be sure HQ's are prepped and in range … etc. The VH bonus that the AI gets simply accounts for some of these types of things that the AI can't actually arrange to do.
In Ironman scenarios, the VH bonus is more scary only because the scenario author has already addressed many of the deficiencies of the stock scenario (scrapping historical idiots for better commanders, etc). But still, it is far from perfect and so the VH bonus is still not much more than what you would get from a PBEM opponent.
Point being, don't interpret the names of the difficulty levels as an indication of what is happening. The names were chosen and printed in the manual and game art LONG before the AI was written.
HARD is the AI balance point. About equal, a little below, but not a lot.
VERY HARD is above the balance point, but not much and is the ONLY setting that can be played continuously without changing. (Well you can play below, but since the AI is handicapped it might be considered cheating to some extent.)
The scripts do not change with difficulty setting, how the AI reacts doesn't change, nothing like that.
Finally, be aware that there are a lot of opinions about the AI, but there are only a handful of active AI players here in the forums. The PBEM players haven't played against the AI in over 10 years.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:54 am
by traskott
I have been playing Ironman Tier 3 with very hard for months. My marines are facing losses verdun style!!! [:o]
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:25 am
by LGKMAS
Guys and girls
I appreciate all the advice you have been offering and I know it is with the best of intentions. However, please remember I am coming to this after 15+years of UV. I believe there are some bad habits I need to unlearn or perhaps some areas where the subtle or not so subtle changes between UV and WitP-AE really impact on what I am doing and I need to discover what they are.
I was issued UV as a learning tool when I was at Staff college nearly 20 years ago and there was no forum available then for us noobs to go to, or at least none that the ADF was prepared to let you in on. Thus all my UV knowledge has been self taught. I am not sure I learnt the right lessons, only those that seemed to work.
I am working on HARD now as most seem to think it gives a better result than HISTORICAL. I am finding the need to manage upwards of 8K of units of all facets a challenge. Yes, I know not all of them need orders every turn. Just trying to keep track of them is a challenge, compared to UV. Especially as those all impact on each other. I would like to see what the AI can do before I decide on my war winning strategy. Thus it is softly softly catchee monkee at the moment.
I need to work on what Kull has suggested, see what evolves from there and then work out why my war-winning strategy is not working. Acknowledging the manual is not the most clear of instruction books, I will come back here to ask questions, as every noob does, about why this seems not to work, even though I appear to be pushing the right buttons. Most of the time, it will be unfamiliarity with the WitP-AE screens compared to UV screens. I just need time to see what happens and why before I decide to ratchet it up a notch or three!
Thank again for your suggestions. I know they are meant with the kindest of intent and I appreciate it. All the feedback I have got that relates to my immediate problems seem to have cleared the way somewhat. Those that deal with further down the track than I have got so far have been carefully noted and will be the subject of serious examination as I get to that stage.
I will say now that this is one of the better games I have purchased and I thank the developers wholeheartedly. Now all I need to do is negotiate screen time with SHMBO! Wish me luck with that.
regards
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:57 am
by Kull
ORIGINAL: LGKMAS
Now all I need to do is negotiate screen time with SHMBO! Wish me luck with that.
The only thing on earth which might be more difficult than this game! [:D]
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:41 pm
by LGKMAS
Okay
been playing for a few weeks now and have got to 30 Dec 41. I have learnt a lot simply by doing and watching what then happens. Also realised that I need some records of such things as Sub patrol Zones, ASW patrol Zones, etc. I also need a watch file, where I remind myself that X is due to happen, so I need to be prepared for it, such as Ships coming out of repair. And TF's needing to go somewhere that need refuellers pre-positioned there. And has that TF finally got there? I need to remind myself this is a LARGE game and needs a lot of attention.
I think I am almost ready to restart, having now seen what actually needs to be done. I will pull up my day one orders saved game and carry on from there. This time, hopefully it will be only bad luck that makes me tear my hair out rather than " Why did that happen? Where is the manual?"
There are still a few areas I am not sure of. In the TF screen, there is a button for Reaction. I cannot find what that means in the manual. The TF section talks about certain TF types having a react of 0 and then there is a section headed amongst other titles Max reaction but that section does not mention reaction at all? What exactly is Reaction?
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm
by RangerJoe
Reaction is like a snake striking a target within range. If someone moves with the range, the force will react to attack it.
To see what task forces have made it to their destination, pull up the task force list and check the endurance needed. If it is zero, then the task force made it and/or has no destination set.
Set up fuel points at bases. You can refuel from the base or even from AOs and/or tankers. The AOs will also pull fuel from tankers to refuel ships as well if they are both at a base. Protect these bases from mini subs and enemy surface task forces. Make sure that you have air search near these bases to detect incoming ships and subs.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:24 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: LGKMAS
Okay
been playing for a few weeks now and have got to 30 Dec 41. I have learnt a lot simply by doing and watching what then happens. Also realised that I need some records of such things as Sub patrol Zones, ASW patrol Zones, etc. I also need a watch file, where I remind myself that X is due to happen, so I need to be prepared for it, such as Ships coming out of repair. And TF's needing to go somewhere that need refuellers pre-positioned there. And has that TF finally got there? I need to remind myself this is a LARGE game and needs a lot of attention.
I think I am almost ready to restart, having now seen what actually needs to be done. I will pull up my day one orders saved game and carry on from there. This time, hopefully it will be only bad luck that makes me tear my hair out rather than " Why did that happen? Where is the manual?"
There are still a few areas I am not sure of. In the TF screen, there is a button for Reaction. I cannot find what that means in the manual. The TF section talks about certain TF types having a react of 0 and then there is a section headed amongst other titles Max reaction but that section does not mention reaction at all? What exactly is Reaction?
1. Reaction is primarily for SCTFs. They must be on patrol. The enemy must be spotted with a high enough D/L within the reaction range.
2. ACTFs (carriers) do not use the reaction setting on the TF screen. They have their own "under-the-hood" reaction to enemy ACTFs. Leader aggression is one of the criteria that affects it. I think there is a rough comparison of relative air strength in the calculation as well.
3. ASW TFs have an incomplete reaction algorithm. They must be on patrol and the sub must be spotted in the same or next hex. The ASW TF will only react one hex at a time but if the sub is spotted again the ASW TF can have multiple successive one-hex reacts. The incomplete part is that it will not engage the sub after reacting into the same hex, but it may end up in the same hex as the sub at the end or the turn and detect/attack the following turn.
4. Regardless of any react setting you make, ACTFs and Amphib/Transport TFs will flee ASAP if they encounter a SCTF. They may not always flee in the safest direction.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:12 am
by LGKMAS
Thanks all, for the reaction comments. I thought it might be something like that.
re TF arrivals etc, yeah, I am doing that. I just must remember to make it part of my go-around for each turn. Sometimes I get carried away and rush into things without doing the requisite housework to make sure everything happens. That is one of the big things about this. NOTHING good happens unless you prep it, supply it and support it. And that may be a long,long trail of convoys and supply sources and training units and, well, we all know what I am getting at.
UV was given to me as a wargame that really wanted you to look after logistics. WitP-AE is even more so. You cannot get a war winning strategy without planning well ahead. Something my students at the Staff College often, well not often, rather regularly forgot.
I have decided not to restart, much as I would like to call a do-over for some turns. I will write off the mistakes for the first few weeks as the inevitable confusion that arises when something unexpected happens and you suddenly have to all work together. in RL, it did take time for the ABDA command to get their act together. It did take time to move troops and ships and air units where they had to go. And it did take time to work out where best to employ them. So, I will carry on with my current game. if I suddenly find myself either apparently breaking the AI (How, I don't know as it seems rather deadly to me at the moment) or the Japanese are marching through Canberra, then I will know I have done something that should not happen (well was unlikely to happen in RL) and will go back to start all over.
Is there a WitP-AE Anonymous group out there? I feel sometimes I need to attend a session and confess.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:51 am
by Kull
ORIGINAL: LGKMAS
Is there a WitP-AE Anonymous group out there? I feel sometimes I need to attend a session and confess.
You've come to the right place - get a cup of coffee and try to find a comfortable chair. [;)]
Congratulations, btw. Making it to the end of December, by my count, puts you in the "lucky" 10-20% of newbs who didn't rage-quit or walk away in the middle of Turn 2, shaking their heads in horror. And by now, yes, you have realized the dark and dirty secret - you are playing "Logistics in the Pacific - Micro managers Edition". [8D]
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:18 pm
by RangerJoe
As Allied, you can easily break the AI by wiping out the Luzon invasion forces, retake Hong Kong, evacuate Malaysia, reinforce Palembang, then wipe out the KB piecemeal when it goes for Java.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:55 pm
by LGKMAS
Well, it looks like I won't be breaking the AI anytime soon. Luzon is looking shaky, Hong Kong is now well behind the front, Malaya is gradually being worn down. Palembang might hold. nothing threatening there yet although there is a IJN CVL TF running loose in the triangle Java/Borneo/Celebes and sinking things. I am trying to locate it with PA but I keep getting lousy weather. In Fact, my CV TFs up near Wake never seem to get the CA Floatplanes up on search in nearly three weeks. Yes, I know Dec Weather in the Northern part of the Pacific is lousy but surely I could score one or two days when something could fly!!
Haven't sighted the KB yet although I have my suspicions. Zeros and Kates are CV aircraft and the raids do give a bearing. I am just trying to stay away from those areas. Although the Mini-KB might be responsible!
I have decided to take it easy. I know there are over 1600 1-day turns but I am not in any great hurry to get through them, especially at the moment. Spend a day or two each turn looking at what happened, what might happen and what I can do to prevent it. I am doing a "Sir Robin" at the moment, getting anything vulnerable out of harm's way and preserving my forces. Pilots are being culled as they get to the 60 exp mark and sent to stateside trg units. Tenders are being pulled out , except for those that absolutely need to be there. Tankers have been loaded and sent to Australia. All the little AKLs are being collected and sent south. I remember in UV the worth of these little ships in keeping smaller garrisons and bases supplied.
All the advice on how to conduct amphibious landings has been put to one side to be read later. I just do not have anything at the moment to invade with.
I know many people want to be able to do a Patton and go roaring off into the blue. He always assumed the Logistics problems would solve themselves and, for the most part, the US logistics system was flexible enough to keep up with him. But that was 1944! I am rather like Monty, who never attacked unless he was sure of the odds and then double checked his logistics before he started.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:56 pm
by LGKMAS
So do we call it LitP-MME now?[:)]
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:31 pm
by RangerJoe
Use your Scout bombing squadron (SBDs) for search, never rely on float planes.
Maybe I should start a game from the Allied side and show in an AAR how to wreck the AI's game. [:D]
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:36 pm
by LGKMAS
I have my SBDs searching but I would like to see the Floatplanes do something. The more searching, the merrier! I presume that bad weather doesn't stop the SBDs searching, only the floatplanes because they have to be recovered from the sea?
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:32 am
by RangerJoe
Yes, the SBDs usually fly. But bad weather can also keep you from being spotted and make attacks harder for the enemy.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:55 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: LGKMAS
I have my SBDs searching but I would like to see the Floatplanes do something. The more searching, the merrier! I presume that bad weather doesn't stop the SBDs searching, only the floatplanes because they have to be recovered from the sea?
Set your float planes to search and over time they will get better at it (NavS skill gains). The trick is to avoid ops losses by keeping search at 50% (to reduce fatigue on pilots and allow some maintenance time) and avoid full range searches (unless you KNOW there is something juicy not far away). I usually search one hex less than max with FPs.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:57 am
by LGKMAS
Hi BB
Yeah, I gather that. But the thing that is frustrating me is that they cannot even get in the air. All three CV TF have CA and CL with them. That should add 4-8 extra planes available to search. But I keep getting told "bad weather cancels Floatplanes search" and has done ever since I started! Okay, North pacific, December, bad weather is usual but for 22 days straight?
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:31 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: LGKMAS
Hi BB
Yeah, I gather that. But the thing that is frustrating me is that they cannot even get in the air. All three CV TF have CA and CL with them. That should add 4-8 extra planes available to search. But I keep getting told "bad weather cancels Floatplanes search" and has done ever since I started! Okay, North pacific, December, bad weather is usual but for 22 days straight?
In the Aleutians, I can believe it. Look up the term "Williwaw" to see what they are up against.
That said, one of my constant beefs with this game is that the proportion of bad weather to good weather is off - toward the bad weather side. I have had several vacations in the tropics and as far south as New Zealand. Every one had mostly sunny weather with maybe one day of light rain every other week. The game pretty much reverses this.
I have had bombers poised to hit Truk from Guam and Ponape for months, and only about three days had acceptable weather for seeing the target and landing back at base. I understand that weather fluctuates within the turn, but aircraft readiness (low fatigue) and supply limitations make it foolish to try bomb through overcasts and anything more than light rain. The saving grace is that both players have to put up with the weather model.
One other thing that adds to the confusion - somehow "Thunderstorms" (a short-term weather feature in my understanding) are more dangerous than "Severe Storms" (which sound like Tropical Storms or Typhoons to me). And you have to guess whether "Light Rain" is better or worse than "Overcast" or "Heavy Cloud". Alfred did clarify that whatever the weather is at the time of the attack applies at all altitudes - right down to the ground/sea.
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:29 am
by LGKMAS
Okay, slowly working forward and I think I am getting the hang of this. I am gradually withdrawing units out of Malaya and PI and DEI, those that want to go. Looking at DEI, the KNIL Army cmd and the MLD look as though they are moveable but when I try to move them from Soerabaja to say Ambon, they do not appear, I have tried Tpt TFs and Amphibious TFs but they do not appear on the load lists. Turned them into Combat mode for Amphibious and strategic mode for Tpt. Still no appearance! Are they immoveable? I would like to tuck them away in Merauke or somewhere else out of the way so that the DEI forces still have a viable HQ.
Some of my air groups are getting quite experienced and I am getting aces of 8 and 7 springing up. My air combat results are very much my way with a general 2:1 loss rate. I intend to withdraw the pilots and send them to units under training. So, I did a check on air groups and a number of them are red, thus slated for compulsory withdrawal inside a month. What does this mean to me as far as airframes and pilots go?
When they withdraw, do the airframes and pilots go into the pool or are they lost to me? If lost, is it worth pulling out all the experienced pilots and replacing them with noobs, thus gaining the benefit of my having them train all this time? Or do they go into the general reserve pool and I can access them. The manual seems rather indeterminate about this but does seem to take the slant that they MUST be withdrawn (or suffer PP hits) with the perhaps not intended suggestion that they are may be lost. Am I being paranoid about this or is the program really out to get me?
Also I have looked at my pilots list. Some of their skills are marked in red. That is the one colour the manual does not address. It talks about grey and black and yellow and green but I cannot find what red means! Help!!
RE: Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:45 am
by RangerJoe
Some planes are lost if they are damaged. If the unit withdraws and they do not return, usually you lose the planes. Otherwise the planes and pilots go into the pools. When you withdraw them, it will state what happens. It would be best just to withdraw the pilots.
Send your HQs by air. In fact, if you can change an Australian base to Dutch control, you can evacuate units to there. For the Dutch air groups that get caught, remove the pilots then disband the group and select it to return later. You only have to remove a fragment.