Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Meh....I need better then primitive graphics..... There are indie developers, even more indie, mom and pop and poorer than HPS who have tossed out games with better graphics. HPS has been around for a long time. Im sure they could have scrounged up some spare change from between the cushions and found a artist....

I can't say that I disagree, but there's been a small army of folks who have followed around in the developers' footsteps and produced updated graphics for the games. The single most vexing concern facing HPS titles, IMHO, is the fact that those same volunteers CAN'T do a darn thing with the simply awful 3-D views that are included in many of their titles, including the Panzer Campaign series.

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Meh....I need better then primitive graphics..... There are indie developers, even more indie, mom and pop and poorer than HPS who have tossed out games with better graphics. HPS has been around for a long time. Im sure they could have scrounged up some spare change from between the cushions and found a artist....

The Indie scene almost universally produces games with primitive mechanics and poor level design that are regressive in comparison to good old games of their genres. On the other hand, from what I've read, Tigers Unleashed is a cutting-edge masterpiece mechanics-wise. It's easy to have good graphics on low budget when you don't have to deliver an extremely complex game.

One thing that I don't understand, though is why they didn't try to adopt some consistent, simple art style instead of mixing flat background with shaded trees and houses.

Still, I'd take an ugly game with great mechanics over a game with good graphics that is mechanically regressive.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

One thing that I don't understand, though is why they didn't try to adopt some consistent, simple art style instead of mixing flat background with shaded trees and houses.

Still, I'd take an ugly game with great mechanics over a game with good graphics that is mechanically regressive.

One possibility that you might want to consider is that the developer is truckin' down a path such that the graphics are 100% open to being modified. While this certainly wasn't the case with the previous titles, the option could actually produce a decent looking game, community add-ons being what they've proved to be in the past.

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

One thing that I don't understand, though is why they didn't try to adopt some consistent, simple art style instead of mixing flat background with shaded trees and houses.

Still, I'd take an ugly game with great mechanics over a game with good graphics that is mechanically regressive.

One possibility that you might want to consider is that the developer is truckin' down a path such that the graphics are 100% open to being modified. While this certainly wasn't the case with the previous titles, the option could actually produce a decent looking game, community add-ons being what they've proved to be in the past.

True, but it seems that a lot of developers/publishers etc etc are taking the easy way out. Charge an arm and a leg for a game and let the modding community finish it....

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ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

One thing that I don't understand, though is why they didn't try to adopt some consistent, simple art style instead of mixing flat background with shaded trees and houses.

Still, I'd take an ugly game with great mechanics over a game with good graphics that is mechanically regressive.

One possibility that you might want to consider is that the developer is truckin' down a path such that the graphics are 100% open to being modified. While this certainly wasn't the case with the previous titles, the option could actually produce a decent looking game, community add-ons being what they've proved to be in the past.

True, but it seems that a lot of developers/publishers etc etc are taking the easy way out. Charge an arm and a leg for a game and let the modding community finish it....

What easy way out? Do you know any other games that have the features of Tigers Unleashed? And who's going to fund these graphics? All the 200 people who want to play a realistic wargame?

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl


One possibility that you might want to consider is that the developer is truckin' down a path such that the graphics are 100% open to being modified. While this certainly wasn't the case with the previous titles, the option could actually produce a decent looking game, community add-ons being what they've proved to be in the past.

True, but it seems that a lot of developers/publishers etc etc are taking the easy way out. Charge an arm and a leg for a game and let the modding community finish it....

What easy way out? Do you know any other games that have the features of Tigers Unleashed? And who's going to fund these graphics? All the 200 people who want to play a realistic wargame?

I'm talking in generalities...I did say a lot of dev/pub.....not just HPS
And thats talking the big boys too, not just indie ones.

And i am sure there are way more than 200 people waiting to buy it. If it was such a niche product HPS would have gone the way of the Dodo bird long ago......

Tillers games under the HPS umbrella had decent graphics.....why the regression?

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I just read a thread about it on Wargamer and I'm shocked to hear about the state in which PoA2 is even several years after release, which includes frequent crashes to desktop. The HPS page of the game doesn't mention it anywhere. It's an unethical business practice. An unfinished faulty product should be clearly marked as such.

You will also find over at Gamesuqad that many over there with the latest patch don't have the issues that arise in the Wargamer thread...

I had POA2 a couple of years ago and never encountered constant crashing...

So check some more forums before making any rash judgements...I have every confidnce in Tigers as I've played poA2...the only concern maybe theAI...but being I'm usless at wargames and like winning it's not a problem really for me.

You sound just like me. Which was why I liked playing the Russians in WiR. I always won against the AI!

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker




True, but it seems that a lot of developers/publishers etc etc are taking the easy way out. Charge an arm and a leg for a game and let the modding community finish it....

What easy way out? Do you know any other games that have the features of Tigers Unleashed? And who's going to fund these graphics? All the 200 people who want to play a realistic wargame?

I'm talking in generalities...I did say a lot of dev/pub.....not just HPS
And thats talking the big boys too, not just indie ones.

And i am sure there are way more than 200 people waiting to buy it. If it was such a niche product HPS would have gone the way of the Dodo bird long ago......

Judging by the complete lack of a PoA2 community, I wouldn't be surprised. The game seems to be a niche in a niche in a niche and so hardcore that many people who consider themselves hardcore can't play it.

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Tillers games under the HPS umbrella had decent graphics.....why the regression?

Probably because they required lesser effort in other departments and were more popular.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Perturabo


What easy way out? Do you know any other games that have the features of Tigers Unleashed? And who's going to fund these graphics? All the 200 people who want to play a realistic wargame?

I'm talking in generalities...I did say a lot of dev/pub.....not just HPS
And thats talking the big boys too, not just indie ones.

And i am sure there are way more than 200 people waiting to buy it. If it was such a niche product HPS would have gone the way of the Dodo bird long ago......

Judging by the complete lack of a PoA2 community, I wouldn't be surprised. The game seems to be a niche in a niche in a niche and so hardcore that many people who consider themselves hardcore can't play it.

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Tillers games under the HPS umbrella had decent graphics.....why the regression?

Probably because they required lesser effort in other departments and were more popular.

Sorry, don't buy it...... I doubt if Scott put all that effort into making a game that sells less than 200 copies... He knows his client base......

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Tillers games under the HPS umbrella had decent graphics.....why the regression?

I think that there's a tendency to give the "HPS-era" graphics more of a pass than they deserve. I'll post a screen-capture of aircraft side-art that shipped with the Midway game in 2010. And I'd note that there are improved graphics for both ships and aircraft that emerged as mods not long after the game was released. If our readers will take a moment to examine the images below, I suspect that at least some of you'll agree that the developer appears awfully close to throwing in the towel on the graphics aspect of its games. IMHO, some of it doesn't even appear to have been professionally done:

And for comparison's sake, let me post an image of mods for the same aircraft that are available for download, all of them done gratis:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker



I'm talking in generalities...I did say a lot of dev/pub.....not just HPS
And thats talking the big boys too, not just indie ones.

And i am sure there are way more than 200 people waiting to buy it. If it was such a niche product HPS would have gone the way of the Dodo bird long ago......

Judging by the complete lack of a PoA2 community, I wouldn't be surprised. The game seems to be a niche in a niche in a niche and so hardcore that many people who consider themselves hardcore can't play it.

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Tillers games under the HPS umbrella had decent graphics.....why the regression?

Probably because they required lesser effort in other departments and were more popular.

Sorry, don't buy it...... I doubt if Scott put all that effort into making a game that sells less than 200 copies... He knows his client base......

So, how much of them are there? Enough to justify 6 years of development?

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

And for comparison's sake, let me post an image of mods for the same aircraft that are available for download, all of them done gratis:

It's like the difference between HD and regular TV.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

ORIGINAL: Perturabo


Judging by the complete lack of a PoA2 community, I wouldn't be surprised. The game seems to be a niche in a niche in a niche and so hardcore that many people who consider themselves hardcore can't play it.


Probably because they required lesser effort in other departments and were more popular.

Sorry, don't buy it...... I doubt if Scott put all that effort into making a game that sells less than 200 copies... He knows his client base......

So, how much of them are there? Enough to justify 6 years of development?

Why ask me? Go ask them.....Im guessing that, like every company, HPS makes games to make money and not for any altruistic reasons...The die hard ASL crowd would probably buy it.I know a few. Hell, I complain about the damn graphics but once i'm back at work I might toss my cash his way too, horribly dated graphics and all....


And on those original graphics...The modded ones are great but even the base ones are still more than suitable.

In my old age I want a little flash in my wargames(strictly for the slowly failing eyesight)....If I want drab i'll drag my old SPI games and set them up....

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

And on those original graphics...The modded ones are great but even the base ones are still more than suitable.

In my old age I want a little flash in my wargames(strictly for the slowly failing eyesight)....If I want drab i'll drag my old SPI games and set them up....

Care to comment on the paint-job and/or national insignia on the image below? And my point isn't that the graphics are lousy, but that the developer appears to have abandoned any pretense, whatsoever, that it cares what its games look like:

To anyone who is even thinking about getting Tigers Unleashed...

DON'T.

Run as far away as possible as you can from this "game'.

I had the unfortunate 'experience' of ordering Point of Attack 2 long ago. At the time I thought it would be an unique game that I could try and edit to do some science fiction warfare, since the game explictly was supposed to take into account lasers and other upcoming 'unconventional' weapons.

Silly Me. Turns out you can't edit the database.

Not to mention the game.......wasn't even a game at all. It was a self-crashing program that was an experiment to see how many times you could crash a program in increasingly creative ways.

Even after it was "fixed" several years later, it still crashed. During the periods where you could actually 'play' it, it was virtually impossible to do it. For example, if you wanted to know which orientation a vehicles turret was pointing (important for overwatch and approaching a possible anti-tank missile position), you had to drill through several pop up windows to find it.

From looking at the publically released screenshots; I see that Tigers Unleashed will be using virtually the same game engine, so.....

...if you buy it, don't whine about how you can't play it etc etc or how it's horribly clunky or obfuscated....you were warned.

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
And for comparison's sake, let me post an image of mods for the same aircraft that are available for download, all of them done gratis:

I'd like to point out something you overlook.

Mods can look like that because modders are doing this unofficially and aren't getting paid for it. So they can kinda sorta get away with using commercial profile artists' work in their mod packs.

For example, a lot of Volcano's soldier side profiles use the artwork of Ron Volstad, or whichever artists that Osprey Publishing is using in that particular monograph.

If HPS wanted to use Ron Volstad's artwork, they would have to sign a copyright agreement and pay Volstad a set fee for a certain number of uses.

That said...They could have long ago scrounged up some money and arranged to have some graphics artists create modernish artwork for all the major unit/branch types of major armies that they would own the copyright too...

But they didn't, similar to how Tiller's games keep using the same game engine framework that was a bit clunky, but acceptable back in 1998 -- without any real user interface improvements.

It's why I really don't buy HPS games unless the subject matter of that particular release interests me intensely.

...or you can wait until the game "actually" comes out, maybe wait for a review, then make up your own mind. Since the game has yet to be released I think I'll wait for a more informed opinion. [8|]

ORIGINAL: BAL

...or you can wait until the game "actually" comes out, maybe wait for a review, then make up your own mind. Since the game has yet to be released I think I'll wait for a more informed opinion. [8|]

We've already seen screenshots of the "game" in question. They're virtually identical in form, layout, and style as Point of Attack 2. If you want to waste your money, go right ahead.