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btw, when reserve commitment and defensive SU commitment issues get fixed, that should provide a very different twist to this scenario. it should make the german lines much stronger

One of the main problems the Germans face in terms of how the combat system works is that, at medium to long ranges, the attacker fires first, so before your artillery can lift a finger, many of those thousands of Soviet guns have already fired, which is also why I don't think reserve units are a good idea in this campaign for attacks you can't control. It also makes artillery support units less useful. At least the other combat support units will generally fire first, as they fire at short ranges.

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Why would you disband artillery units when you have plenty of armament points? The Germans are desparately short on manpower, but that's about it

Because they get zapped by artillery divisions, are small and thus fragile and are always refitting so they can suck up a lot of replacements. Many artillery units also don't add anything your division doesn't already have, they're just another battalion of 150mm's. 12 guns can hardly be called a "force multiplier".

Efficiency comes from having fewer, stronger units, not from having a number of good units (the on-map ones) and a large number of fragile ones (support units).

I am doubtful about the results of this combat mechanic! I will not bog down this AAR with the discussion, so I started a separate thread about game mechanics that encourage the player to disband artillery and AA units. tm.asp?m=2779755

Well Oleg didn't attack much this turn. Big surprise actually. I think he's tooling up for some big breakthroughs though. Here's the big problem zone, prior to my moves but after my recon.

Looks to me like he's going to try to bust through my weak infantry south of the bulge and through the Chernigov area. I will have to shift panzers to back these areas up of course. Have very little to take over the front lines with but something must be done.

Here's the other problem spot.

I'll be shifting some infantry around to get better CVs in places, but I fear 4th army and 3rd panzer are in for a brutalizing. He has enough tubes in the area to build a new internet. [:'(]

Noticed that as I reactivate stuff, the motor pool gets tighter and tighter. Makes sense, just doesn't help anything.

Manpower snap for this turn. Looking better I think? 70k+ added to my Germans this turn in replacments. Should help.

1st panzer div newly arrived and heading to 3rd panzer. Don't see too many CVs like that any more.

And in the Crimea, I think we will make the Dnepr with 17th army. Expected much more of a push here, but I did notice he's hurting for rail in the area. Might just save my wurst.

Rum cav didn't catch their train at the port. Not enough MPs. They're toast now.

If you think you are going to get mashed in a given sector, I would seriously consider giving some ground. He is behind schedule in terms of gaining ground, so you got it to give up.

The other thing I see looking at the screen shot east of Kursk is even if you wanted to stay, he is going to brutalize you in those level 1 forts. Level 2 forts are not much better. Oleg has shown he has no problem putting 70k guns on a hex.

I think you look at doing a weak screen of mostly mobile units while your infantry takes a deep step back and gets dug in really well someplace. Let him see how good he is at advancing with just his mech and armor away from those nasty infantry corps. There will be holes and perhaps you can make him pay a bit or even if you just fence with his units to slow them down, that can work too in order to give you some time to recover more strength. In addition by doing a strategic withdraw, his guys should start sucking wind hard on logistics I would hope. He has a lot of tanks and mech units, which means he has absolutely got to be hurting on trucks. I bet your line holds a lot better when his guys are sucking wind from being tired and away from their rail heads.

That is one of the bad things about the 43 scenario for the Axis is that a strategic withdraw is out of the question for them with so many units tied up being static. They have no choice but to stay. Be interesting if they had full mobility and could withdraw a good amount.

I activating things as fast as possible. Half of 18th army done this turn, along with some reassignments.

I'm withdrawing to the Dnepr in the center as fast as possible. Problem is I need to extract those guys in the bulge and that means no fast retreat. I may just least a few inf behind next turn and skedaddle.

ORIGINAL: Mynok

He has enough tubes in the area to build a new internet. [:'(]

Hehehehe

A panzer division of 27 CV? Now that's a bunch of Supermen. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Aditia

btw, when reserve commitment and defensive SU commitment issues get fixed, that should provide a very different twist to this scenario. it should make the german lines much stronger

This is a good point. In fact, if BA was suffering from the bug the anywhere near the extent I recenlty have (in which around 90% of combats were not receiving defensive SUs), then really all analysis of the balance of this scenario is null and void until the bug is fixed.

Support units add only a few CV points, and it seems many battles were not even close as Oleg said he didn't really need the +1 odds modifier.

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Good news for you that he didn't attack much Mynok, that area northwest of Sumy could easily have become a big pocket.

ORIGINAL: Mynok

I'll be shifting some infantry around to get better CVs in places, but I fear 4th army and 3rd panzer are in for a brutalizing. He has enough tubes in the area to build a new internet. [:'(]

Noticed that as I reactivate stuff, the motor pool gets tighter and tighter. Makes sense, just doesn't help anything.

Manpower snap for this turn. Looking better I think? 70k+ added to my Germans this turn in replacments. Should help.

Mynok is this the screen for the total axis production or just for Germany ? I got fooled a couple of time looking at the total screen, it had somethign like 100k from Italian manpower alone (this was after the italians had withdrawn).

So with 60+ defensive combats per turn, presuming 95% arent receiving SU support, we are either saying that a) support units are a pointless addition to the game and wouldnt change anything (which would be good to know to save on all that intricate micromanagement I enter into on this side of the game), or that b) the cumulative effect of literally hundreds of SUs being sent to support combats per turn will have a substantial impact on the figures and results produced?

I hope it's the latter, but perhaps you're right its the former.

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Support units add only a few CV points, and it seems many battles were not even close as Oleg said he didn't really need the +1 odds modifier.

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Good news for you that he didn't attack much Mynok, that area northwest of Sumy could easily have become a big pocket.

ORIGINAL: molchomor

ORIGINAL: Mynok

I'll be shifting some infantry around to get better CVs in places, but I fear 4th army and 3rd panzer are in for a brutalizing. He has enough tubes in the area to build a new internet. [:'(]

Noticed that as I reactivate stuff, the motor pool gets tighter and tighter. Makes sense, just doesn't help anything.

Manpower snap for this turn. Looking better I think? 70k+ added to my Germans this turn in replacments. Should help.

Mynok is this the screen for the total axis production or just for Germany ? I got fooled a couple of time looking at the total screen, it had somethign like 100k from Italian manpower alone (this was after the italians had withdrawn).

Hmmm....I suspect all?

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Support units add only a few CV points, and it seems many battles were not even close as Oleg said he didn't really need the +1 odds modifier.

-

Good news for you that he didn't attack much Mynok, that area northwest of Sumy could easily have become a big pocket.

I realized when I opened the turn why he probably did not: mud. We are hard up in it, which is giving me a much needed breather, though it is slowing my escape from that bulge a lot.

One of the attacks he did do ended up with a 3:1 CV ratio but my guys held. Something else at work here? Seems that should have been a retreat, no?

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mynok

One of the attacks he did do ended up with a 3:1 CV ratio but my guys held. Something else at work here? Seems that should have been a retreat, no?

Hmmm... that can't be right if true...

Can you post screenshhot of that combat?


Leo "Apollo11"

Sure...I'll get it done later.