Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

[BBfanboy]

There is a good chance that that TF contains BOTH BBs and CLs - different ships being observed through the clouds each time. I find early war Allied air search gives spotty observations - lack of experience maybe?

About the reliance on CD guns and mines - I sandboxed sending a number of Japanese ships in to bombard Bataan - one of the biggest naval fortresses in the game. Some DDs arrived first and found the mines - they hit a few and they cleared a few, but there were lots left. When the CAs arrived they seemed to know where the minefield was and they only hit one mine, doing fairly minor damage. They commenced their bombardment at about 15K yards and moved as close as 8K. Their "Min Bombard" setting was zero, but they never approached closer than 8K. The CD guns fired off over 200 shots and got a couple of minor 6" hits, but the CA bombardment didn't achieve much either. I conclude that the best the CD accomplished was to keep the enemy from getting into really effective range, and mines are only effective when they are first discovered.

[ny59giants]

His 2 BBs may outgun your 2 Cleveland CLs, but if you have some good DDs you could severely damage his BBs and take them out of the picture for some time. Take the battle and vector in some subs to get at his damaged ships retreating.

In a prior game, I sunk Yamato with just over 20x 1000lbers from SBDs.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

His 2 BBs may outgun your 2 Cleveland CLs, but if you have some good DDs you could severely damage his BBs and take them out of the picture for some time. Take the battle and vector in some subs to get at his damaged ships retreating.

In a prior game, I sunk Yamato with just over 20x 1000lbers from SBDs.

In my prior game i sunk Yamato with one single torpedo shot by a tiny PT... hit-> magazine explosion->sunk ....[X(]...

[JocMeister]

BB,

Thats excellent information! Making me a bit concerned though but still very good info! [:)] But as long as Erik don´t know that I should be safe! [:D]
Do you think it would make a difference to embed some DMS into the SCTF you are going into a base that you know have mines? I have only tried once without any minesweepers and my biggest ship of course hit a mine...[:(]

Michael, If I understand you correctly going in with 8-12 Fletcher without CL/CA/BBs is a better idea? I will have about 20 subs in the area in a few days. Same question as I asked BB. What about the mines? Ignore them?

GJ, Thats awesome! [:D] Isn´t that pretty much what happened to the Shinano btw? Some fires after a single torp hit and a clever damage control officer decided to ventilate the ship and the whole thing burned down to the hull? [:'(]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

BB,

Thats excellent information! Making me a bit concerned though but still very good info! [:)] But as long as Erik don´t know that I should be safe! [:D]
Do you think it would make a difference to embed some DMS into the SCTF you are going into a base that you know have mines? I have only tried once without any minesweepers and my biggest ship of course hit a mine...[:(]

Michael, If I understand you correctly going in with 8-12 Fletcher without CL/CA/BBs is a better idea? I will have about 20 subs in the area in a few days. Same question as I asked BB. What about the mines? Ignore them?

GJ, Thats awesome! [:D] Isn´t that pretty much what happened to the Shinano btw? Some fires after a single torp hit and a clever damage control officer decided to ventilate the ship and the whole thing burned down to the hull? [:'(]

Just wanted to point out that my CD scenario was against a bombardment TF at night. Amphib TFs have to approach to range 0 and consequently they suffer if the CD units are not suppressed/use up op points against a bombardment or embedded heavy ship escort.

DMSs are great for mine clearance, but CD guns will hit them fairly easily because they must steam nice straight lines to do their job. Embedded with heavy ships on bombardment they should do OK. Embedded with the Amphib TF they also help, but they clear the most mines when independent. I would arrange a bombardment TF with three or four DMS, then a DMS only TF to sweep with the Amphib TF set to follow. Embed a few heavy ships the the Amphib TF.

Re: the Japanese CV that burned up after the single torpedo hit, that was brand-new Taiho in the Philippine Sea battle. Torp hit + cracked gasoline line or tank + ventilation attempt + spark = WHUUFFFF! .
Shinano was not even completed yet, sailed with a partial, untrained crew to get to a port safer from air attack. Four torps + incomplete compartment waterproofing + clueless crew = GLUB GLUB GLUB! SS Archerfish is credited with the largest single kill of the war for that one!

[JocMeister]

BB, Thanks again for the help! I will do as you suggest! And thank you for clearing out the facts about the Taiho that I mistook for the Shinano! [:)]

9-10th of August -43

Erik sent in a TF with some troops to Merauke. I nailed the TF from Horn Island using Banshees but not before the troops got onshore. Dang. Messed up my plans a bit. I only have a single RGT prepped for it. But using 4Es or possible B25s perhaps I can soften them up enough.

4E bombings of Carnarvon takes out about 250 troops per bombing. He might just be evacuating troops not needed for the defence. No signs of the BBs again. I might keep the Brit CV around. Not sure though as she is only protected by DDs.

The last turns put the situation in the PM area into light again. I must decide here soon. Any input or advice is welcome!
Forces prepped for PM:
1 Amphib Corps
1 Combat engineer RGT.
1 US Div
1 USMC Div
2 Tank BTL.

If I´m not going to go for PM I want to start prepping them for other targets ASAP. Will the forces be enough? Can I get the troops on shore and will I be able to take the base quickly enough? If I go for it I will devote the entire strength of the airforce in SOPAC. Probably close to 1000 planes. But the distance means only the Hellcat/Corsair on extended range and the P38 can provide LRCAP. Very problematic.

At the moment I´m leaning on skipping this operation. Let me know what you guys think! I´m just not sure its worth the risk to the APAs/AKAs.

[BBfanboy]

The only way to protect your APs and AKs is with an overwhelming CAP and strong surface ship protection against SCTFs and subs. You can get the overwhelming CAP by moving carriers in close, but you are then risking them to sub or Nettie attack. The safest way is to do a slow island hop in the many islands of the Solomon Sea, build air bases to LBA CAP a nearby island and do it again. The advantage is that he would have to defend against a move toward Rabaul/Shortlands/ Lunga as well as PM. Using LRB to suppress his air bases is also essential. If you can achieve all that and he does not evacuate troops, you can dispose of a lot of his land unit power earlier rather than later - things will move faster in 1944.
PS - your attack from Horn Island will make him think twice about sending anything through Torres Strait! A secure flank for a move on Milne Bay or one of the islands ...

Addendum to my thoughts on minesweeping - if you don't need to keep the target secret, you can also sweep the mines by bringing in small CMc minesweepers. At one VP apiece they are expendable. IIRC, the Dutch and Australians have lots of them. AMs and AMcs can also do the job but usually are worth more points.
Because of their short range a bigger ship will have to bring them in close and refuel them just before they go in to do their work. Set them to retire so at the end of the night phase they clear the port area. They may be able to go in again next night phase. They may also need a SCTF cover just outside the port to intercept enemy DDs sent to get rid of them.

[JocMeister]

BB,
I´ve reached a big stopping block a Ndeni. I lack the forces atm to go further. Waiting for shipping to return from refits. I need to make another small jump before I can move for it. So I am moving up towards the Solomons from the south just very, very slowly.

Possible PM invasion

Any invasion of PM would have to be without any kind of Carrier support. The few CVEs I have left are tied to the CENT and NOPAC operations. I spend a lot of time looking at the map and I´m starting to lean more and more on just bypassing the whole area. I have some 4000 AV currently prepped for targets in the area but all require risky amphibious operations at the very fringes of LRCAP. I´m just not sure any operation in the New Britain is worth the effort. I have about a month before all shipping is upgraded and ready to go so there is still time to decide. But I´m thinking liberating Northern OZ and then trying to jump to Timor would be much more beneficial to my long term goals.

On the other hand the forces are prepped and ready which means I could go almost as soon as the Navy is finished with the refits.

For now I will go for Merauke, Gove and Groote. I will give it another week to decide. I´m starting to send transports and warships towards Normanton.

[BBfanboy]

Different axis of approach, but the same idea - develop forward in small stages that allow for nearby CAP, suppress the opposition and move on. I couldn't remember where you stand for carrier strength because all the AARs I read get jumbled together after a while - you are the best judge of what you can accomplish with your available forces. Good luck!

[JocMeister]

11th to 14th of August -43

Western OZ

My BB TF west of Carnarvon was spotted and sunk the Es and 2 Coastal minesweepers. Bummer. I´ll withdraw them to Perth to heal up the SYS damage from the full speed run. Not sure if I´ll keep them here or not.

Decided to take a pretty big risk with my 4Es today. They were ordered to attack the AF at Port Hedland without escort or sweeps. I have almost 90 of them in the pool though so I can quite some losses. I want that AF closed. I turned off rest so there should be some 250 4E striking tomorrow. Losses or not that AF will be closed after that! Victorious is going to CENTPAC right away.

Still not sure if Erik is moving out everything or just some of the troops at Carnarvon. Troops count is 2000 less.

SOPAC
Decided to send in a 8 DD TF to Vanikoro. Hopefully they won´t all go boom on the mines...[8D]
Shipping have started moving toward Normanton. B25s are pounding Merauke doing some 150 losses per day. Happy with that! [:)]

Rest of the world

ZzzZzzzZZzzzZ

Been doing some upgrades on air groups here and there.

Question

What DB to use on the CVs? The SBD-5 or the SB2C?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Question

What DB to use on the CVs? The SBD-5 or the SB2C?

Anyone? [:)]

[Halsey]

I like the SBD5's on some CV's for only naval attacks.
While I put the SBC's on other CV's for ground support missions, because of the extra bombload.

So, I set my CV TF's up into naval attack protection TF's carrying SBD's, with the other CV TF's into amphibious invasion support TF's carrying SBC's.

[JocMeister]

Halsey,

Thank you! That makes good sense! I don´t have the luxury of having enough CVs to spare for ground attack so I updated all to the SBDs. [:)]

[JocMeister]

14th - 18th of August -43

Burma

Erik has found my two Armies at Akyab. He has still not spotted my 3rd and 4th though! Will be very interesting to see how he reacts. I still havn´t seen any shuffling of troops. I don´t know if he really knows what I have here or if he is a lot stronger than I anticipate. No sign of flight though.

SOPAC

Erik interdicted my bombings of Merauke and I lost 3 B25s and 2 Hellcats for two of his. Corsairs will sweep tomorrow. I might have to bring the Heavies back to deal with Merauke. First troops are loading up for Gove. Will be 3 trips I think. But he won´t be able to dislodge me out of there without a major effort. Using OZ/NZ troops for this.

CENTPAC

Shipping and troops have arrived at PH. Still awaiting refitting to finish up. Don´t need to decide target until the last minute.

Western OZ

REALLY interesting developments! Erik has abandoned Carnarvon! [&o] This opens up the whole of Northern OZ as distances shorten for me. Wandering through the desert doesn´t seem to affect supply much and the shorter distances mean I can give air cover using other airframes then the P38. Great news. I will pause at Carnarvon and let the troops rest for a bit and test supply. Have to decide if I should keep the 4Es here to splatter his troops during their journey. There are more important things though and I guess he will heal them up quickly nevertheless. This development makes me question any operation into New Britain. Why not just bypass all of it? I can take it in 44-45 when he has moved out. Decisions, decisions...

For the first time in over a year I feel guardedly optimistic about the future. Very dangerous...and it probably means Erik will smack me right back down shortly...

[ny59giants]

Erik interdicted my bombings of Merauke and I lost 3 B25s and 2 Hellcats for two of his. Corsairs will sweep tomorrow. I might have to bring the Heavies back to deal with Merauke. First troops are loading up for Gove. Will be 3 trips I think. But he won´t be able to dislodge me out of there without a major effort. Using OZ/NZ troops for this.

Try setting your fighters to sweep, but place your B-25s on Naval Attack/Ground Attack with fighters as Escort and give them all Merauke as their target. Hopefully, they don't attack shipping and go hit the base after your morning sweeps. However, beware that if he has shipping at PM that may be too close and they go over there for a Naval Attack and get destroyed.

Are you getting any B-25D1s that are attack aircraft?? Train them up at LowG and Strafe. Then set them to go in at 1000'

Carnarvon/Exmouth - Bring up an Air HQ or two and base some DBs and TBs to keep any Japanese SC TF away. If you can use your B-24s to keep his AFs close to Port Hedland and beyond, do so. Since Erik has been aggressive in the past prepare for him to be so here. Use his playing style against him.

[JocMeister]

Michael, Thats an good idea but I´m a bit worried they will go after any kind of shipping instead! He has some ships at PM..

I have 4 squadrons of B25D1 already trained in Low naval! Havn´t gotten any opportunity to use them yet though... Soon perhaps! [:)] You are right about Carnarvon. I´ll lift in the Airhq at Perth via sea as soon as I feel its safe! Want to move some CAP into Carnarvon first!


I also forgot to mention I had one of those insanely frustrating moment again. Erik sent in a SCTF with 2 CAs and 2 CLs straight into Luganville. The 450 mines didn´t seem to bother him the least. The My own SCTF at Ambryon (sp?) with two Clevelands and 8 Fletchers didn´t react. One PT boat TF also didn´t react. And to top everything off he ended up just 4 hexes from Luganville at daybreak. Guess what? 50 DBs and 28 TB escorted by 125(!) fighters decided to not take off AGAIN. I´m so sick of this. [:@] No explanation to be found. Everything checks out as usual. Infuriating! [:@]

[ny59giants]

Horn Island to Merauke is 4 hexes. Its 7 hexes to PM. Set the range for everybody you want to hit Merauke at 4 hexes using this method and they will not go to PM.

The My own SCTF at Ambryon (sp?) with two Clevelands and 8 Fletchers didn´t react.

Try setting a Patrol Zone with Luganville as the only Patrol Zone hex and to stay for one day. Since it was only 2 hexes away, what were the qualities of your TF leaders??

[JocMeister]

Michael, Of course...I should have figured that out myself. I think I don´t get enough sleep!

TF leader only had a 55 in aggressiveness. Could that be it?

18th 27th of August -43

Erik did indeed abandon Carnarvon! Good news for me. He left some 30k supplies and some nice level 6 forts that made me almost immune to the BB bombardment he sent in! [:D] Erik said to me he wasn´t sure it was right or not to abandon it. I´m not sure either but I would have gotten it eventually. The 4Es and P38s have more important things to do then bomb fleeing troops though so they are sent elsewhere!

I have been brewing a little plan lately. More info on that when I get the time to do a proper update. Almost 1000 aircraft is devoted to this. Taken a lot of time to shuffle them into position...Soon! [:)]

CENTPAC

CVs reached PH. Will need to train the pilots a bit before moving on. With the CVEs I can assemble some 500 ACs. It should give Erik reason to pause but he has been extremely aggressive with the KB and I´m sure he will seek battle if I give him the opportunity. My plan is to get in and get out. I will not risk the CV/CVLs against any kind of KB right now. Still undecided on target. I won´t go for Tarawa though. That much is sure. Wake is still tempting but I feel this might prove too much as I can´t really stay around. Whereabouts of KB is unknown. Hopefully he has moved them to Western OZ. I withdrew my BBs so I don´t sail into an ambush. I have VERY few BBs! [:(]

Burma

Erik spotted my 3rd army at Kalemyo (sp?). This should make him wonder a bit where I´m going. I don´t have much hardware with this army but there is still almost 4500 AV in there. I also have a reserve army in Calcutta with some 1800 more AV. Add that to the Armies at Akyab and the Corps at Ledo I have some 15000 AV in place! Not all can follow into Burma though as I need PPs to buy out 3 Indian divisions first.

I just bought out 2 more of the massive Chinese Corps. Started flying them in to Ledo.

SOPAC

On hold for now. Waiting for refits to finish.

Stay tuned for a proper update!

[BBfanboy]

Although the CVEs can put up a lot of aircraft, their slow speed makes them easier targets to hit and their fragile construction makes them much easier to sink than a fleet carrier. They might be able to score some hits on KB carriers but will suffer terribly in a clash. They really are there to provide CAP and some ASW protection and hit any SCTFs that wander too near. I woulld risk them against KB only if they were supplementing a CV strike as they could draw off some of the attacks on the CVs.

Re: that massive army in Burma - impressive, but I wonder if that many troops can be supplied once they forge their way overland?

[ny59giants]

I know I sent you this (Leaders). It would be 'wise' to refer to it when selecting leaders. I do. [;)]

Surface Combat TF
• Surface Skill - To gain surprise and cross the T in an engagement
• Aggression - High Aggression will increase the likelihood that the Surface Combat TF will react and seek a fight (be careful... A TF for two DD's with an Admiral of 100 aggression will probably pick a fight with some BB's... This rarely ends well for the DD's)
• Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.