Matrix Games Forums

Command:Modern Air\Naval Operations looks like it could be a great engine to make some Vietnam scenarios.

ORIGINAL: wodin
Command:Modern Air\Naval Operations looks like it could be a great engine to make some Vietnam scenarios.

I'm sorry .....I'm not familiar w/ Command:Modern Air\Naval Operations .......in fact I've never heard of it. You've played it before?
If you've played it and TOAW too I'd be interested to hear your opinions in a comparison of the two.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey Curt.........um....it looks like the southern "marker" for the free fire / restricted thingie is advancing northward and if it moves adjacent
to me then I'm going to be unable to move the "slider" back to the restricted end. What should I do about that. Maybe stopping the
progress during the NVA turn and disband that bad boy or something like that?

Dang, what's he doing up there? Those are supposed to be immobile whether under human or PO control. You can disband him, but once you move back to restricted fire you won't be able to Free Fire again, because the hex possession won't be reset properly.

This is already on my list for the update. I've found a better way to handle the Free Fire option.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

An air strike on a VC unit which costs me 3 F-100's

NOTE TO CURT: Um....I understand that you're going to make an update to Campaign for South Vietnam sometime in the near
future and I'm wondering how hard it would be to incorporate the O-1 FAC's or the O-2 FAC's that shot rockets into the target area to
designate the specific target that the fighter-bombers were to strike. They were unsung heros if you ask me.

I will look into those.

Larry it's in the coming soon section of the forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3411151

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3410675

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/483/details/Command:.Modern.Air.Naval.Operations

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: wodin
Command:Modern Air\Naval Operations looks like it could be a great engine to make some Vietnam scenarios.

I'm sorry .....I'm not familiar w/ Command:Modern Air\Naval Operations .......in fact I've never heard of it. You've played it before?
If you've played it and TOAW too I'd be interested to hear your opinions in a comparison of the two.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I'm seeing more aircraft and helicopter losses than I "feel" are valid. I have no proof and I'm aware that I probably have an Allied bias
going on here and it's just a vague feeling rather than evidencial conviction. And that technique of selecting an aircraft unit and then
mousing around looking for bad guys seems to be cheating but I'm not going to stop using it.

I have no doubt that aircraft losses appear too high. The scenario has not been optimized yet for use with the AAA patch. In fact, during the last upgrade I beefed up the NLF AA defenses in order to achieve historical plane losses. It didn't work, of course, but I left the inflated AA TOEs in place until a solution could be worked out.

In light of this, it might be better to avoid direct attacks and let the planes do their thing on Combat Support and Interdiction missions. The Allies can achieve a 5% interdiction level in this scenario and it is truly brutal on a hyperactive NLF.

Original Curt Dude:
I have no doubt that aircraft losses appear too high. The scenario has not been optimized yet for use with the AAA patch. In fact, during the last upgrade I beefed up the NLF AA defenses in order to achieve historical plane losses. It didn't work, of course, but I left the inflated AA TOEs in place until a solution could be worked out.

Oh. So in other words I'm playtesting the scenario for use w/ the AA-patched 3.4 Cool. Are you getting all the data you need to see?

Original Curt Dude:
In light of this, it might be better to avoid direct attacks and let the planes do their thing on Combat Support and Interdiction missions. The Allies can achieve a 5% interdiction level in this scenario and it is truly brutal on a hyperactive NLF.

Sounds good to me. It's historical that there were squadrons that flew nothing but interdiction. I flew w/ the 16th SOS and we flew up
and down the Ho Chi Minh trail almost every night. My duty cycle was every other night because of the restriction about flight hours
per month, etc. It was that way for all the gunners. I have no idea how they treated the pilots and co-pilots. I imagine that the sensor
operators where every other night too. Not sure......it's been too long ago.

Oh, and about that wandering marker: I attacked and killed it. So it's not a problem any more. I discovered that as long as they are on
the unplayable hexes I can't attack them but as soon as they wander into the green hexes they are vulnerable. I'm not sure about the
hex possession and moving back down to the restricted end as I haven't left "free fire" status yet. I'm planning on going to "restricted"
just as soon as the "front" stabilizes and the rush dies down. If it ever does.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
Oh. So in other words I'm playtesting the scenario for use w/ the AA-patched 3.4 Cool. Are you getting all the data you need to see?

Yes I am. After having read the thread on the AAA fix I suspected that CSV would need some tweaking to play right with it, and your AAR has confirmed those suspicions.

How are the choppers faring BTW?

How are the choppers faring BTW?

Um.....I've seen at least two attacks involving the Cobras where of the 30 involved in the attack about 10 of them were shot down. So I've
been laying low w/ the choppers since then. They are resting now to get back into combat ready status and I expect to be able to use
them in about two turns.

ORIGINAL: Raindem

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
An air strike on a VC unit which costs me 3 F-100's
NOTE TO CURT: Um....I understand that you're going to make an update to Campaign for South Vietnam sometime in the near
future and I'm wondering how hard it would be to incorporate the O-1 FAC's or the O-2 FAC's that shot rockets into the target area to
designate the specific target that the fighter-bombers were to strike. They were unsung heros if you ask me.

I will look into those.

I don't really have any good ideas about how to incorporate the FAC's. They acted like a battlefield multiplier wherever they worked out.
Bad weather was a problem so they didn't really fly all that much during the monsoon period but they were able to place the bombs
dropped by the fighter-bombers in the exact place needed a heck of a lot more accurately than if the fighter-bombers were trying to
bomb a slowly-moving land target, especially in the jungle. The friendlies would use their mortar to lob smoke grenades to designate
targets but their range was limited. And they tended to run out of smoke grenades.

What I'm thinking is that the shock level for the Allies aircraft should jump about 150% for the duration of an attack that uses FAC's.
Somehow. Something that would enhance the combat results for that attacker / FAC pair for that attack.

The attack results of the Australians going after one of the more adventuresome VC units.

I destroyed a VC regiment but it cost me VMA-223 what ever that was. I don't see the planes in the losses column though so I don't know
what gives.

I hit the end turn button and the NLF people did their moves and now it's a new turn and we have a new threat picture:

The 937th Engineers were doing some road clearing operations from Bien Hoa to Xuan Loc when they happened upon a VC unit sitting
on a bridge. Now to helicopter in some combat units and force the enemy unit off the bridge before it gets damaged..

Here's all the losses so far:

Okay so I moved everybody and hit the end turn and the combats started and here's one of the typical ones. I needed to use a flank
attack and not just a hey diddle diddle right up the middle. Unnecessary losses. My fault.

An attack on the VC unit next to the last one:

Another new turn another new threat picture: Here's the visible NLF units in T15:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Larry it's in the coming soon section of the forum.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3411151
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3410675
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/483/details/Command:.Modern.Air.Naval.Operations

I checked out your links and I must say it looks exciting and really complicated. I'd like to see somebody design a WWII in the Pacific
using that game engine. There's somebody that will probably try. And yeah, that might make some really fancy Vietnam scenarios.
Thanks for the heads up.