Matrix Games Forums

subs suffer from the same ammo problem as the rest of the ships in WITP and AE do. How many times have we seen BBs completely emptied of their main gun ammo after one attack? Even worse IMO always has been(and is) the fact that you can see whole CV TFs more or less emptying their AA ammo within one turn when they were attacked by three dozen aircraft.

I guess this is an obvious issue that will be corrected in another patch?
- Have anyone said this will be looked into?

ORIGINAL: PzB

Hm, Andy tells me that Jap base force units upgrade with ca 24 coastal guns in February 1943!!! [X(]
That means, maybe expect for Wake, that I'll be without coastal defences for a full year [:(]

Kereguelen, were are you?

The (mobile) Coastal Artillery Regiments from WITP were fictional units and thus are not in the AE. But - as Andy told you - you'll see a sizeable increase of medium-sized (12,7cm DP) guns in IJN units (via TOE upgrades) later in the war (actually meant for AA).

Nevertheless - if you look hard - you'll discover some useful IJA artillery units arriving in April 1942 unter Kwantung Army which could come in handy for coastal defense (making looking easier, just watch out for 11th - 13th Ind.Hvy.Art Bn's). Not exactly coastal defense units, but still useful enough. And there are some other nice little gems hidden in the Japanese OOB.

Btw., if you compare the coastal defense of the Home Islands and of certain important bases (like Truk) to the assets found in WITP, you'll notice that Japanese coastal defense capabilities are much stronger in the AE than they were in WITP. There're just not many mobile CD units left.

ORIGINAL: PzB

I guess this is an obvious issue that will be corrected in another patch?
- Have anyone said this will be looked into?

I´m not sure this is an obvious issue (for the devs) as it´s more or less the same as it ever was and we were playing WITP for years with exactly this "feature". The difference now is that there are far more surface engagements IMO and so it gets more obvious that there seems to be some problem (hopefully noone shoots me for using the word "problem"...) with the available ammo. If you look through a couple of AARs you will find enough statements about BBs having run out of their main gun ammo after one fight with the enemy that perhaps only resulted in a couple of hits.

It was a not so well known exploit of the WITP engine to try to get some ac through an enemy´s CV CAP to have the flak actually firing at your attackers and you would soon find out that only a couple of ac getting through Cap still resulted in the TF using up most of it´s AA ammo. With UBER Cap in WITP this was not that much of an issue (you wouldn´t believe UBER Cap would be good eh? [;)]), because flak most often didn´t come into play anyway. If it´s still the same in AE (the UBER ammo use) then it could be a problem because your Cap (should) not be bulletprove and your flak actually should do something. Which it can´t if a whole CV TF runs out of ammo just because there were two waves of a dozen ac each.

But this is just one of my stupid assumptions and I have done no test, only experience from years of WITP, my yet limited experience of playing AE and from reading AARs. Someone able to use the editor won´t have much of a problem though to set up a CV TF, no CAP and have a couple of bombers attacking the ships to see how much AA ammo was used. Same goes for ammo of all other guns too, take some SC TFs and look how long they can shoot, IMO not long.

Ok thanx for the update Kereguelen!
It will be challenging to place those few selected units around to the most likely "Andy" invasions spots then I guess.
- When I'm busy playing in one part of the closet you may rest assured that the Scot will nose around in the garden! [;)]

What about those 8" guns that were installed at Betio, Tarawa - will they also "pop up" in the TOE upgrade sometimes during 1943?

I think you are right Castor troy, ships and sub TFs have an increased chance to react and intercept the enemy in AE and this will also help deplete ammo a lot quicker. Whenever there is a battle the opposing sides tend to withdraw into the same hex and then battle is re-initiated until ammo is low.

Can't we just suggest to increase all gun / AA ammo stocks 2-3 times for ships and subs?
Guess this can be done in the editor as well.

ORIGINAL: PzB

Ok thanx for the update Kereguelen!
It will be challenging to place those few selected units around to the most likely "Andy" invasions spots then I guess.
- When I'm busy playing in one part of the closet you may rest assured that the Scot will nose around in the garden! [;)]

What about those 8" guns that were installed at Betio, Tarawa - will they also "pop up" in the TOE upgrade sometimes during 1943?

Not in the TOE upgrade but as the '3rd IJN Special Cst Gun Bn' arriving Feb 1943 (sub-unit of 3rd Special BF - fictional name but correct OOB). You don't have to install them at Tarawa.

ORIGINAL: PzB

I think you are right Castor troy, ships and sub TFs have an increased chance to react and intercept the enemy in AE and this will also help deplete ammo a lot quicker. Whenever there is a battle the opposing sides tend to withdraw into the same hex and then battle is re-initiated until ammo is low.

Can't we just suggest to increase all gun / AA ammo stocks 2-3 times for ships and subs?
Guess this can be done in the editor as well.

not sure of the consequences with main gun ammo for the capitol ships as this could also lead to endless shooting and perhaps more whipeouts. If you see TFs running out of AA ammo far too soon then this could be changed in the editor (if possible) as this would have the only consequence of the flak keeping firing at incoming ac (which it should IMO as I can´t imagine a big CV TF running out of AA ammo anytime soon). No changes are possible for ongoing games though.

you may rest assured that the Scot will nose around in the garden!

They do that anyways.......[:D]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

Nevertheless - if you look hard - you'll discover some useful IJA artillery units arriving in April 1942 unter Kwantung Army which could come in handy for coastal defense (making looking easier, just watch out for 11th - 13th Ind.Hvy.Art Bn's). Not exactly coastal defense units, but still useful enough. And there are some other nice little gems hidden in the Japanese OOB.

This has not been my experience. I have now had two invasions opposed by allied 150mm arty not fire a thing at the invaders.
Arty in base forces and CD units appear to fire, but 'in my experience' I have not seen specialist arty units do the same. A pity, because in these two instances, that was what they were there for.

Actually, I've not see that artillery units fire on amphibious TF's either.
So it's very possible that Japan should not be on the defensive until 43...

Would have loved it if a routine could be added that made capital ships fire seconday guns at certain types of ships;
AK, AKL, TK etc.

Tomorrow I'm personally heading towards Singapore to inspect the newly aquired city so this AAR may become interrupted until I'm back in a couple of weeks! [8D] Goodbye snow and ice!

....not let's see were did I put the shorts and sun tan [:)]


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 26, 42

Invasion of Ambon; coastal guns firing a lot but we get ashore more or less intact.

Invasion Support action off Ambon - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft

23 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
CL Kuma
DD Urukaze
DD Hakaze
DD Mochizuki
xAKL Nichizui Maru, Shell hits 1
PB Fuji Maru #4, Shell hits 1, on fire
PB Busho Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
PB Chiyo Maru #4, Shell hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub Attacks

First lots of shells and the ships is all but done for - then 2 torpedoes are expended...great!

Submarine attack near Johnston Island at 169,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-168

Allied Ships
xAKL Mortlake Bank, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Mortlake Bank is sighted by SS I-168
SS I-168 attacking xAKL Mortlake Bank on the surface
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has not been my experience. I have now had two invasions opposed by allied 150mm arty not fire a thing at the invaders.
Arty in base forces and CD units appear to fire, but 'in my experience' I have not seen specialist arty units do the same. A pity, because in these two instances, that was what they were there for.

In one PBEM, my CD unit in Darwin did a nice job of sinking ships. Until they were retreated. In another, the CDs were well suppressed and did not do as good a job.

Hi Khyberbill;
 
I had no problems with CD units. They work fine, I am talking about specialist arty - the mobile stuff. I would imagine a 155, from a specialist arty unit, parked on the coast could pop away at ships just as well as a fixed place CD unit. In fact some of the CD units are mobile, so that should prove it?

One of the CD units I had at Darwin was mobile. I forget where I brought it from but it banged away at the troopships with a nice fervor.

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Hi Khyberbill;

I had no problems with CD units. They work fine, I am talking about specialist arty - the mobile stuff. I would imagine a 155, from a specialist arty unit, parked on the coast could pop away at ships just as well as a fixed place CD unit. In fact some of the CD units are mobile, so that should prove it?

All things being equal, the 155mm Coastal Defense guns will score more hits against enemy ships than a 155mm Field Howitzer. CD unit guns are presumed to be sited on fixed mounts, ("Panama" mounts, in US Army parlance) that allow the gun to swivel, and are equipped and trained with all the paraphanelia necessary to sight, track and engage moving enemy ships. Most field artillery units are howitzers, not guns, dug into the earth/sand, with limited ability to traverse, and no training on how to engage ships. In the editor you can see that CD guns have higher accuracy than a 155mm gun, and much higher than a 155mm howitzer.

It is still helpful to have the field artillery units around - they definitely help disrupt the invading troops as they come ashore.

Oh Ok. Cool, well that explains it nicely enough for me. Thanks Blackhorse.

John, look like you are right - you have to stay on the offensive until mid 43 [:D]

ORIGINAL: PzB
The IRON KNIGHT was also torpedoed by a Jap sub in RL and was recently found.[/color][/link][/b]

Finally we have historical game!!!![:'(]

Just wanted to drop message. [:)]

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Hi Khyberbill;

I had no problems with CD units. They work fine, I am talking about specialist arty - the mobile stuff. I would imagine a 155, from a specialist arty unit, parked on the coast could pop away at ships just as well as a fixed place CD unit. In fact some of the CD units are mobile, so that should prove it?

Wouldnt they just fire on the beach ? They wouldnt have the doctrine to handle LOS fire on moving ships possible but wouldnt be great.

Hi Pauk, good to hear from you! Considering a comeback? [;)]

Ok first report from Singapore; it's hot and humid down here and I'm suffering from jet lag [:'(]
Fell asleep at 2300 hours last night - only to be wide awake by 0200, and stayed so until....after lunch.

Patrick came and picked me up at the airport when I arrived at the airport and we had some chow in an outdoor seafood restaurant, quite a treat - Thx Patrick! [:)]

- Looking forward to our tour of Singapore historical sites next week!

Ok, a few combat results. Enemy is punished severly in China and we continue to sink cargo ships and work on the remaining bases on Java and in the DEI.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 27, 42

Sub Attacks

2 shells left..great! Now would be the time to spare a torp?

Submarine attack near Johnston Island at 167,112

Japanese Ships
SS I-172

Allied Ships
xAKL Yarra, Shell hits 2

xAKL Yarra is sighted by SS I-172
SS I-172 attacking on the surface
SS I-172 low on gun ammo, Kojima R. breaks off surface engagement and submerges
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Cuttack at 46,43

Japanese Ships
SS I-158

Allied Ships
xAKL Ardent, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage


xAKL Ardent is sighted by SS I-158
SS I-158 launches 8 torpedoes at xAKL Ardent
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Cuttack at 46,43

Japanese Ships
SS I-158

Allied Ships
xAKL Mabella, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Mabella is sighted by SS I-158
SS I-158 attacking xAKL Mabella on the surface
SS I-158 low on gun ammo, Nagaishi I. breaks off surface engagement and submerge
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Andy didn't pull out quickly enough and we bagged a rag tag Chinese Army at Loyang!

Ground combat at Loyang (87,43)

Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 51659 troops, 437 guns, 118 vehicles, Assault Value = 1906

Defending force 15872 troops, 100 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 444
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1205
Allied adjusted defense: 141

Japanese assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 2)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Loyang !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1043 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
17457 casualties reported
Squads: 218 destroyed, 288 disabled
Non Combat: 954 destroyed, 272 disabled
Engineers: 108 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 151 (149 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units destroyed 9

Assaulting units:
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
116th/C Division
36th/C Division
32nd Division
35th Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
110th/B Division
26th Engineer Regiment
41st/A Division
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
98th Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
3rd Construction Regiment
15th Chinese Corps
7th Construction Regiment
39th Group Army
24th Group Army
1st War Area
10th Chinese Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not getting great modifiers here, need reinforcements!

Ground combat at Soerabaja (56,104)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4038 troops, 60 guns, 10 vehicles, Assault Value = 157
Defending force 1634 troops, 28 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 85

Japanese adjusted assault: 27
Allied adjusted defense: 28

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(-), preparation(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
21st/C Division
56th Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
Artilleriecommando Coastal Gun Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The oil fields north of Rangoon are secured;

Ground combat at Magwe (57,47)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 517 troops, 0 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 46
Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 42
Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 42 to 1 (fort level 1)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Magwe !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker:

Assaulting units:
14th Tank Regiment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambon doesn't give up right away....

Ground combat at Ambon (76,109)
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4303 troops, 49 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 177
Defending force 2531 troops, 39 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 75

Japanese adjusted assault: 98
Allied adjusted defense: 55

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
217 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
271 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
Kure 2nd SNLF
Sasebo 2nd SNLF
16th Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
Molukken Garrison Battalion
4th Coastal Gun Battalion
Ambon Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Chinese shock attack against Wuchang fails miserably and enemy losses are great!

Ground combat at Wuchang (84,51)

Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 93932 troops, 679 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3439

Defending force 31597 troops, 264 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 1108
Allied adjusted assault: 1757

Japanese adjusted defense: 7793
Allied assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
727 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 53 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
13271 casualties reported
Squads: 198 destroyed, 894 disabled
Non Combat: 100 destroyed, 725 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 72 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
20th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
8th Chinese Corps
99th Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
100th Chinese Corps
5th Construction Regiment
20th Group Army
6th War Area
19th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
49th AA Regiment
41st AA Regiment
29th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
27th Group Army
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
22nd Artillery Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
25th Group Army
56th AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
3rd Division
39th Division
51st Infantry Brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A short report from Singapore; sitting in the Singapore Airlines lounge waiting for Lufthansa to take me back to HQ. Had a great time in Singers, not least thanx to Patrick - cheers mate!

We'll give a more detailed summary of our actions later, but suffice to say we visited many interesting sites; Kranji War Memorial, Ford Factory and surrender site, Changi prison and Sentosa Fort. On Saturday 5 wargaming and WitP enthusiasts met at Raffles Longbar for the mandatory Singapore Sling and Tiger beer [:)]

Most of my week was spent working, but still feel I got to see a bit of the city with as many inhabitants as all of Norway put together. It's stifling hot and humid in Singers, my back turned red after my 1 hour outdoor swim - forgot to put on sun block...

Managed to get a few turns back to Andy, jet lag has seen me wide awake in the middle of the night more than once. Not a lot of action to report, all of the Phillipines has been mopped up, Mandalay secured in Burma and we are building bases on New Guinea, the Solomons and Marshalls.
Ambon has also been captured; what remains is to finish the enemy stronghold on Java and Sumatra, capture the bases east of Java and secure Timor.

All this should be achieved within the end of March and Phase II will begin in early April as planned. I'm moving supplies to our forward bases, building defenses and replenishing and resting ships and ac for the coming operations. There hasn't been a single sighting of major enemy naval combatants since the outbreak of hostilities, Andy is obviously protecting his key assets. Will they come out to play when we strike again?

I have pondered over Phase II for some time, plans have been laid for several scenarios; including landings in India and Australia. I'm slowly coming to a conclusion but will get back to this. Doubt Andy will get much out of his intel, units are preparing for bases all the way from Colombo to Palmyra [;)]

Think Andy got enough of our submarines, less attacks lately but last turn we got 2 freighters outside Colombo. Enemy subs haven't scored to many successes either and our ASW plan is slowly being implemented throughout the Pacific.

In China operations have mostly come to a halt as our initial goals have been reached. The cost has been a widespread lack of supplies, so several convoys are shipping into Shanghai, Tientsin, Hong Kong and Port Arthur. The Chinese are counter attacking and moving several places but can't achieve much more than being a nuisance.

Currently I'm awaiting reinforcements, first of all the next Guards Division as well as the carrier Junyo. The small naval attack units (Val's and Kate's) are being assembeled to be shipped south, they will man the outposts of the Empire. Even a dozen bombers and Zero's is a deterent to anything not including enemy carriers.

The challenge is to spread our existing air HQ's out in a way that covers all theaters.
- I've gone through all commanders and those belonging behind a desk somewhere else have been replaced. I've also found that numerous important LCU's have utterly incompetent leaders that also have been replaced.

All in all we're in pretty good shape after the first 3 months of war.