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ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Never accept malice as the answer where incompetence is possible. Incompetence is ALWAYS much more common (and likely) than malice. Malice requires work, incompetence just needs an opportunity![:)]

Agree with you wholeheartedly, Steve. In situations like this, the first cut is always Occam's razor.

I am quite intrigued by Chicken o' the Sea's comments on the Chinese view of things. Factual interpretation is always internalized. And its analytical parameters are conceptually/culturally/linguistically based. Very much like the blind men describing the elephant. Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle wrote a sci-fi book about a race of aliens that evolved a class of beings whose sole purpose was to translate/mediate thoughts, attitudes, postures, etc .. between and among principals, thereby bridging conceptual gaps that lead to conflict through misunderstanding. Woof!

There are many words that resonate strongly in one language, that have absolutely no analog in another. Messages that initiate as 'soft' may well be received as 'adamant' because of simple linguistic/cultural misunderstanding at either the origination or reception end. I think Chicken o' the Sea's comments are fundamental to our understanding of not only the war, but also the environment of a portion of the world that we know only through sushi bars and Chinese take out.

Chicken o' the Sea, you be da man.

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea
Well, if you look at the last century or so of social, political and cultural upheaval in China, it is easy to see how people can come to view the world as a series of conspiracies. I think the average Chinese person who lived through these periods felt like they had very little control over their lives.

Why, he got America into the European War, of course.

ORIGINAL: sprior

Why, he got America into the European War, of course.

But how did FDR KNOW the Germans would declare war against the USA? They were under no obligation whatsoever to do so.

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea
Well, if you look at the last century or so of social, political and cultural upheaval in China, it is easy to see how people can come to view the world as a series of conspiracies. I think the average Chinese person who lived through these periods felt like they had very little control over their lives.

Which is the whole point, bro, and you got it wired pretty tight. Everything that transpires is viewed through the prism of experience and context of the observer. We use a working model (admittedly a minority view propounded by the wierdos in the sciences buildings) that looks at social inertia (population mass x desire as the velocity term, with d/dt being a resultant personality factor) as a primary determinant. The math is an awful lot like wavefront analysis of a tsunami.

I think like you. The 'average' person has much more impact than they are given credit for.

ORIGINAL: sprior

Why, he got America into the European War, of course.

But how did FDR KNOW the Germans would declare war against the USA? They were under no obligation whatsoever to do so.

ORIGINAL: Terminus

To paraphrase Winston Churchill: "A fanatic is someone who will change neither his subject, his mind or his volume".

This thread should have stopped the moment its subject line was changed to "The Truth about Pearl Harbor". People who capitalize the word "Truth" are dangerous.

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Then you can do with it like I did with my copy, put it next to the Da vinchi code and the Von Danikan books! [:D]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Never accept malice as the answer where incompetence is possible. Incompetence is ALWAYS much more common (and likely) than malice. Malice requires work, incompetence just needs an opportunity![:)]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58This was always my problem with Tom Clancy novels. The gear ALWAYS worked. The comms ALWAYS got through. NOBODY was ever hung-over or seeing the doc about the clap when the Rooskies came over the hill.

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

...and so do i...