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ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

Mad old boy, why ever so?

Don't get me wrong-she's a real beaut-in a bare knuckle brawling sort of way. Kind of like your admiration for the 'all business' look of the South Dakota class USN BBs. But you've changed your avatar away from that other man-crush ship of yours. War...something something? The change in mentation concerns me a bit.

ETA: Not really. [;)]

warspite1

As per the sig line, I will be displaying some of the ships and aircraft of the British Pacific Fleet over the coming month or so. No one and nothing can replace that saucy little strumpet, HMS Warspite, in my affections [:)]

Does the RN have any plans for another ship of that name? Or do they retire the names of memorable ships, like hurricane names?

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Zorch



+100!

warspite1

Does the author give conclusions or is this a mere presentation of the facts (as known at the time of writing)? For example, what does the author believe to have been the cause of the demise, so violently, of the British battlecruisers?

I can't remember Campbell's specifics except that I agreed with him. [:D]
Innes McCarthy reaches some conclusions in Jutland 1916: The Archaeology of a Naval Battlefield.

having only just got the book i havent gotten to its conclusions, but a quick glance at the summary looks like he is more on the side of it being a stalemate mostly but he specifically only is looking at the fighting in the battle itself so a lot of other factors are deliberately omitted from this account, this being said he does believe that despite the wealth of information there are still some gaps (or at least at the time of this book being written) that make a final assessment difficult.

What though i find extremely impressive about this book though and what attracted me to it, is that it has alot of diagrammatic drawings in it of the ships with all the hit locations on them and in them and the angles of the shells

in all i think the book is more on the side of providing the details of the battles themselves in terms of the ships involved, movements, hits and ammo expediture among other things - but that said, it is presented well with alot of well written text from what i see so far.

I am doing a few little battleship drawings of my own at the moment, in particular SMS Rheinland, and so this book is a great resource for me too

ORIGINAL: warspite1
For example, what does the author believe to have been the cause of the demise, so violently, of the British battlecruisers?

Well, to be blunt, they were hit by enemy shells and / or torpedoes and then caught on fire and / or exploded. Rather violently. Duh...[8|]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
For example, what does the author believe to have been the cause of the demise, so violently, of the British battlecruisers?

Well, to be blunt, they were hit by enemy shells and / or torpedoes and then caught on fire and / or exploded. Rather violently. Duh...[8|]

warspite1

Great insight! Maybe you should write a book. "Why ships go bang and like explode and stuff" (Chickenboy) - Published by Wang Care Publishing


[;)]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

i got this work recently - very detailed in the damage specifics -

+100!

Bought it the day it came out. But, now, you can download it free.

warspite1

Well that's handy. I'll take a look.

I am currently reading The Red Knight by Miles Cameron.

Re-reading The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

Lost Science by Kitty Ferguson.

ORIGINAL: Orm

Re-reading The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

This is a real classic. I re-read it earlier this year as part of my bucket list items. One of my all time faves.

Now I'm re-reading Hunt for Red October.

ORIGINAL: Orm

Re-reading The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

Never heard of it. Whatsit 'bout?

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Orm

Re-reading The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

Never heard of it. Whatsit 'bout?

It is a historical novel, and one of the best books I ever read. The story is set during 12th century England. The main characters are bound together by the building, or creation, of a cathedral, during a time of unrest. A civil war rages on in the background.

This book is huge (some 1000 pages) and is a stand alone novel. But after 10 years or so a follow up novel was made. And after 10 more years yet another follow up novel was made and that one was recently released. And that one I am going to get myself for Christmas. And I will reread the first two novels before tackling the last one.

The first two books has been made into two separate miniseries.


Here is the trailer for the miniseries.

*WARNING* Contains *SPOILERS*

THE PILLARS OF THE EARTH - Official Series Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd4e1dF_CkM

*WARNING* Contains *SPOILERS*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pilla ... iniseries)

Well at the moment The Association of Small Bombs - By Karan Mahajan. Wonderful!

Having been energised by visiting Berlin recently, I have just finished Bergen to Buckingham Palace (Oppenheimer) and have moved onto The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting (Roseman). End of Chapter 1 "This is a book trying to paint a picture of how, on 20 January 1942, fifteen educated men met to talk about genocide".

Two excellent reads.

Away from war for the moment, I've just ordered the Pochettino book. Might be interesting, and something can read as and when while still concentrating on the books at hand [:)].

Has Pochettino written the book or is it about Pochettino?

Here's some blurb about the book

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 31006.html

Gothic serpent from Osprey publishing. I like those small books series.

Asne Seierstad - One of Us - The Story of A Massacre and its Aftermath


Jokela School Shooting Official Report


Randy Stair - Journal

I finished The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting (Roseman).

A very good read - albeit not the one I was quite expecting. As one historian wrote "the most remarkable thing about the Wannsee Conference is that we do not know why it took place". The Wannsee Protocol (minutes) that survived are just a summary of the meeting rather than a proper record of what was said and by whom. My understanding has always been that this was the conference that decided the fate of the Jews of Europe and set in motion the Final Solution. But the truth is, that is almost certainly not the case. For one thing, as is argued by Roseman, the people present at the meeting were too junior in rank to agree such a thing.

Whilst not detracting from the quality of the book, the story is ultimately unsatisfying - not only for the obvious reason of the most terrible outcome - but because we will probably never now know exactly who ordered what and when.

By the time of Wannsee, Jews had been gassed at Chelmno since early December 1941, the Extermination camp at Belzec was already under construction, individuals were seemingly taking matters into their own hands (in the Balkans for example) and the Einsatzkommando in the Soviet Union were liberally murdering Jews and had been for months. Even after the conference, and as soon as the military situation allowed for transportation, there was much involvement in individual train loads by Himmler - and through him, Adolf Hitler.

Many of the documents needed to identify what exactly happened have been either destroyed - particularly around Heydrich's involvement - or perhaps never existed (given Hitler's wish to distance himself from written evidence linking him with genocide). Even where documents exist there is much contradictory evidence, euphemism and Hitler’s vitriolic speeches that may or may not have always meant what he actually said. At Nuremburg (and later Eichmann in Israel) of course those at the meeting who were still alive had every reason to be economical with the truth of what happened and their own involvement. Trying to piece together the evidence is difficult and so we don’t get that neat tidying up of all the loose ends with specific orders on specific dates that confirm xxxx is when the Final Solution began.

I suppose that we should not be surprised. We take on face value – because all WWII histories about the Nazis confirm and reinforce the fact - that Hitler operated a divide and rule policy and liked to play off departments and people against each other. Given that, why should we think that genocide would be any different.

But Roseman at least tries to provide the various strands of evidence in the chapters – Mein Kampf to Mass Murder and Mass Murder to Genocide - and so set the importance of the conference against what happened before (and indeed in the year after) the events of 20 January 1942. If Wannsee was not the meeting where the ‘Final Solution of the Jewish Question’ was actually finalised, its importance as a turning point in what came about is clear.

This is a book that paints a picture of how, on 20 January 1942, fifteen well-educated men (two thirds had a university degree and over half had the title doctor, mainly in law) came together to meet and, speaking to one another with great politeness, sipping their cognac, they cleared the way for genocide.

Chilling.

agree about the problem of the finding a causal chain. One thing I suspect was there were many and they intersected at some points.

Overy in the The Bombing War has an almost throw away argument. Basically when the Allies first started to really damage the Ruhr, the Nazi authorities evicted the Jews (who were not allowed to work) so that 'German' workers could continue to live near the factories. The displaced Jews were put into holding camps and barracks. As the bombing did more damage, that accommodation in turn was used for German workers ... you can guess the rest. But in effect, it was a totally accidental by product of an earlier decision.

Another odd strand was that the Nazis first used gas to kill Germans with mental and physical health issues. The Catholic bishops in the Rhineland kicked up such a fuss that was this stopped. So all of a sudden they had a group of 'experts' with nothing to do. Can't find it back but think that was from Fritz's Ostkrieg.