Taming Expansion of IJ Production

[okami]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

There is one advantage to respawn and I find it a humourous one. With respawn there is less ships for the Japanese to sink at anyone time and thus less VP's to gain.

Stated another way, the only early war limiting factor in IJN vps is the number of allied ships in the game available to run down and sink. That sort of strategic "reality" has absolutely no resemblance to the actual war. And people complain because the Allied player often runs and hides? Jeesh!

Don't get me wrong I agree with you it is still humourous. But then again I could have a sick sense of humour.

[okami]

I will say there is one thing the game should have respawn for. Ground units and air units. Why is a slot destroyed if the unit is destroyed? Wouldn't the nation in question just rebuild the unit if it could? This would go a long way to stopping ahistorical game play that is based on saving these units from destruction.

[FeurerKrieg]

No respawn for carriers is the way to go in my opinion. I really don't understand why respawn was put in, in the first place.

As far as LCU respawn - have to be careful with that. Many units IRL were disbanded, but that doesn't happen at all in game. So by 1945 there are already too many LCUs in existence, and respawning LCU's would make that worse.

Now if we want to put in disbanding dates for LCUs...

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Now if we want to put in disbanding dates for LCUs...

But they said that is going into AE! [:)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Hmmm. Looks like you may be right. Looks like I was wrong. I change my position in that case. It looks like the Allies do objectively suffer from "respawn". [:o]

In addition to Jim's citation of dates and calendars (which is compelling), let me toss one more argument out for your consideration. When you compare respawn only against respawn it looks like sometimes the Allies get a benefit. But when you compare respawn against no-respawn, the Allies never get a benefit - because in no-respawn they always get those carriers (and on their real dates, as Jim pointed out).

[Andy Mac]

We have disbandments, withdrawals and renamings in AE plus splits that allow small units to be on map at start but you need to combine them for the Divs you will NEED later in the war.
 
I hate attacking with Bdes they are just too fragile...

[Mobeer]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
In addition to Jim's citation of dates and calendars (which is compelling), let me toss one more argument out for your consideration. When you compare respawn only against respawn it looks like sometimes the Allies get a benefit. But when you compare respawn against no-respawn, the Allies never get a benefit - because in no-respawn they always get those carriers (and on their real dates, as Jim pointed out).

The Allies get a benefit when their 5th and subsequent respawned carriers arrive. [:@]

[Feinder]

[font="times new roman"]As a primarily Allied player, I hate respawn.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]I consider my over-all defense early game as “aggressive, but not stupid”.  I don’t have a problem committing my CVs to battle if I can pull a victory or a draw (indeed, I did accomplish that).  I certainly do NOT consider them expendable simply because they’ll respawn.  Now, I might get lazy and stupid and under-estimate my opponent (Bilbow just throttled me in 09-42), but I don’t consider them expendable.  I recently lost several carriers because I under-estimated Bilbow, not because I considered them expendable on account of respawn.  As it turns out, it’s going to be Spring 44 before the respawns arrive.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]However, without respawn and given the historical arrival dates that Ron posted, I’d have 3x reinforcement CVs by summer 43.  Given my existing assets, 3x fleet carriers would substantiate offensive drives in Spring/Summer of 43 (a reasonable historical situation if the Allies were historically in a similar position as I am).  If I had a “historical reinforcement schedule” my loss would delay major offensive operations by about 6-9 months.  But due to respawn, I won’t have similar projection for 12-15.  [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]I didn’t play “expendable” with my CVs early on.  Yet did put up an aggressive defense and sank 3x IJN CVs and 2x CVLs (at a cost of 1x USN CV).  But it was my own Midway that just cost me 4x USN CVs.  Yes, I’ll get a 5th CV compared to the historical 4.  But the “cost” of that CV is 9 months of power projection, and that’s a LONG time for Japan to dig in.  I’d rather get 4x CVs on a historical schedule (instead of 5), than to lose the 9 months.  I don’t see how “respawn” has helped me at all.  [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]And while I’m thinking on it, the respawn of those (total) 5 CVs will draw nearly 450 pilots from the USN pool.  That’s a HUGE drain.  Whereas the reinforcement CVs would NOT draw from the replacement pilot pool.  The USN pools are woefully low compared to utilization later war.  That’s gonna hurt.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Fek.  I just thought of that. That’s gonna really suck.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]-F-[/font]
 

[GaryChildress]

Well, worst case scenario regarding "respawn": If AE is respawn and respawn works on the same principle as in WITP and if a few other factors remain constant, then respawn CAN be modded out of the game. [:(]

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Mobeer
The Allies get a benefit when their 5th and subsequent respawned carriers arrive. [:@]

The fact most of the respawns don't appear in most game till near the end of 44 more than mitigates 2 possible extra CV's. All those months of no CV's in 1943 and 1944 aren't made up for by a few months near the end of the game with 2 extra CV's.

As an allied player I want my historical CV's on their historical arrival dates please. Screw the two extra repawns, by the time they show up they no longer matter.

Jim

[Feinder]

The fact most of the respawns don't appear in most game till near the end of 44 more than mitigates 2 possible extra CV's. All those months of no CV's in 1943 and 1944 aren't made up for by a few months near the end of the game with 2 extra CV's.

As an allied player I want my historical CV's on their historical arrival dates please. Screw the two extra repawns, by the time they show up they no longer matter.

Thank you.

That's what I was trying to say, but you were much more succinct about it.

And the other issue with respawn is that they kill your pilot pools as well.

-F-

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

The fact most of the respawns don't appear in most game till near the end of 44 more than mitigates 2 possible extra CV's. All those months of no CV's in 1943 and 1944 aren't made up for by a few months near the end of the game with 2 extra CV's.

As an allied player I want my historical CV's on their historical arrival dates please. Screw the two extra repawns, by the time they show up they no longer matter.

Thank you.

That's what I was trying to say, but you were much more succinct about it.

And the other issue with respawn is that they kill your pilot pools as well.

-F-

Thirded!

[FeurerKrieg]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

We have disbandments, withdrawals and renamings in AE plus splits that allow small units to be on map at start but you need to combine them for the Divs you will NEED later in the war.

I hate attacking with Bdes they are just too fragile...

Well that is very cool!

[FeurerKrieg]

Are there any Allied players who PREFER respawn? I play Japan, but I'd rather my opponents have their CV's when they should And given that planning/ordering took place before the losses of 42, I really don't understand the logic behind the whole respawn deal.

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

ORIGINAL: Feinder

The fact most of the respawns don't appear in most game till near the end of 44 more than mitigates 2 possible extra CV's. All those months of no CV's in 1943 and 1944 aren't made up for by a few months near the end of the game with 2 extra CV's.

As an allied player I want my historical CV's on their historical arrival dates please. Screw the two extra repawns, by the time they show up they no longer matter.

Thank you.

That's what I was trying to say, but you were much more succinct about it.

And the other issue with respawn is that they kill your pilot pools as well.

-F-

Thirded!

[bilbow]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Are there any Allied players who PREFER respawn? I play Japan, but I'd rather my opponents have their CV's when they should And given that planning/ordering took place before the losses of 42, I really don't understand the logic behind the whole respawn deal.

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

ORIGINAL: Feinder



Thank you.

That's what I was trying to say, but you were much more succinct about it.

And the other issue with respawn is that they kill your pilot pools as well.

-F-

Thirded!

The Allied production is fixed otherwise, so re-spawn make no sense. If there were a mechanism to adjust Allied production to battlefield experience, then cases of extreme carrier losses, or extreme losses of anything else for that matter, could be addressed through changing of priorities. That's not going to happen for AE of course, but would be the ideal for the future. I'll settle for the "re-spawn off switch"

How do re-spawns affect pilot pools? I thought the airgroups were reinforment squads just like any other.

[Feinder]

How do re-spawns affect pilot pools? I thought the airgroups were reinforment squads just like any other.

 
When I pulled up the ship reinfocement screen, the respawn-CVs have their CAGs listed but with zero planes.  I presume they'll arrive with zero planes, and then have to accept replacments and pilots from the pools.
 
-F-
 
 

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Feinder
Thank you.

You're welcome. [;)]

Jim

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

How do re-spawns affect pilot pools? I thought the airgroups were reinforment squads just like any other.

When I pulled up the ship reinfocement screen, the respawn-CVs have their CAGs listed but with zero planes.  I presume they'll arrive with zero planes, and then have to accept replacments and pilots from the pools.

-F-

So we don't know this for certain yet? Does anyone out there have the diffinitive answer?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
I really don't understand the logic behind the whole respawn deal.

Play balance pure and simple. With Japan dominating the CV game for 42 and 43 and the allies for 44 and 45, they get a balanced game…

Jim

[FeurerKrieg]

Well, I like the game and all, but that isn't a good reason though.

IMO - The 'Average' Japanese player should be able to expand until late 42 (isn't that when P-38's arrive?) and then have to hold on for the push from the Allies for the rest of the war.

Now, a GOOD player should be able to win some victories and maybe can keep expanding into early 43 - fine. But certainly, Allied stuff should be arriving on time.

either get rid of respawn entirely or at least give us a toggle (or a non-respawn scenario).