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RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:06 pm
by NeverMan
ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear
Well Neverman, the Marshall has you there.
Skipping works well when a player is at peace and nothing is going on, for instance Austria and Prussia are under enforced peace with France, and all the minors are gobbled up, why do they need a diplomacy or non-reinforcement phase? On the other hand, a player can't afford to skip when at war, so depending on where your game is, you should see more or less skipping. Perhaps there is a lot going on in your game (or everyone else is too intimidated to try).
There games out there, where if a player does not do his turn in 24 hours, the host skips his turn. These games scarifice tolerance for speed. Why not apply this same militant attitude to skipping. If you are at peace, you must continuously skip reinforcement, or other wise the host will take off a political point loss for wasting time (like an icing penalty in hockey). If you apply this rule, you might see some big gains in speed, and it is not as harsh as the 24 hour rule can be, so playing this way doesn't make the host a super bad guy.
However, don't get me wrong, I do not believe skipping is the final solution to game speed. It is just one, pretty limited tool.
Things can change in this game pretty rapidly. I like to be able to adjust on the fly, which means skipping phases isn't really an option. I understand if some people find this useful, personally, I have yet to use it and I have also yet to see it used.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:07 pm
by NeverMan
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
I'm glad YOU are seeing an improvement in YOUR game times. Maybe this will help make the game more enjoyable to YOU.
Now, now, Neverman! I was just sharing my observations. Am I'm allowed to share even if they are not the same as yours? LOL!
LOL, of course!!
However, if you are making your opinion (or really a statement as you say it) based solely on your observation then you are doing exactly what Erik claimed you weren't doing, which I said you were.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:01 pm
by iamspamus
No. That's not quite true. That's the point of those type of comments. Certain people can be as negative as they want and post their opinions...ad naseum...but if there is a dissenting one...OHMIGOD!!! "I'm being repressed." (A little monty python humor there.) Anyway, at least you're enjoying it ME. According to Neverman, that makes ONE...[8|]
Jason
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
I'm glad YOU are seeing an improvement in YOUR game times. Maybe this will help make the game more enjoyable to YOU.
Now, now, Neverman! I was just sharing my observations. Am I'm allowed to share even if they are not the same as yours? LOL!
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:13 am
by Marshall Ellis
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
I'm glad YOU are seeing an improvement in YOUR game times. Maybe this will help make the game more enjoyable to YOU.
Now, now, Neverman! I was just sharing my observations. Am I'm allowed to share even if they are not the same as yours? LOL!
LOL, of course!!
However, if you are making your opinion (or really a statement as you say it) based solely on your observation then you are doing exactly what Erik claimed you weren't doing, which I said you were.
I'm doing what who said I wasn't doing that who said I was??? LOL!
I was simply giving you guys my results that I found with the skipping BUT this is not to be taken as the results for all BUT only what I can see from my frame of reference. Please don't take my observations as observations for anyone other than me. Don't try this at home LOL!
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:16 am
by Dancing Bear
[/quote]
Things can change in this game pretty rapidly. I like to be able to adjust on the fly, which means skipping phases isn't really an option. I understand if some people find this useful, personally, I have yet to use it and I have also yet to see it used.
[/quote]
Hi Neverman
I have to ask what is the value of being able to adjust on the fly during the reinforcement phase, when you are at peace and have no reinforcements coming? Remember the game clears your skip setting if there is a DOW or you take control of a minor, and you can always react in the land phase. Isn't doing your reinforcement under these circumstances essentially wasting time?
I do get why diplomacy and naval skipping (except AU and PR) are not popular. Skipping these phases needs some sort of agreement amongst players to "do nothing" in order to rapidly advance a game through something like a winter of enforced peace/blockades.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:22 am
by borner
For me, because setting them up to be done at the same time by all players will speed things up more.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:34 am
by Dancing Bear
Borner
I agree simultaneous phases would be faster especially for diplomacy and economic, but I think there are too many problems with simultaneous reinforcement. Neverman is right in thinking that during times of war, the order of reinforcment is important, so we need to maintain the sequence during war time.
I would like to see a way that the game prompts you at the end of the diplomacy phase, if you have reinforcments coming (and have selected skipping), and asks if you want to provide orders in the diplomacy phase for the placement of your reinforcments to be followed in the up coming reinforcment phase (minors with no corps would be placed automatically with preset orders for seige fights depending if there was one or two infantry for that minor). That way, at least when at peace, diplomacy and reinforcment would be a combined phase, while those players at war would still follow the sequence.
This would really work well with a simultaneous diplomacy phase. Imagine dip and reinforcment completed by all 7 players in an evening?
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:37 am
by borner
D-Bear, well put.
Yes, there are issues with the reinf phase. I agree 100%. It is a trade-off though. You accept some issues as you and Neverman outline, for the benifit of game speed. Personally, I would be happy to start with the Eco and Dip phases. Reinf would be nice in my opinion, as I consider the problems you outline as minor, but i respect your and other's opinions that it is more than that..... If Matrix rolled out an update tomorrow saying that they are doing this for ONLY Eco and DIP, and that is all they will ever do, I will be 95% as happy. ANYTHING WILL HELP!!!!
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:41 pm
by NeverMan
ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear
Hi Neverman
I have to ask what is the value of being able to adjust on the fly during the reinforcement phase, when you are at peace and have no reinforcements coming? Remember the game clears your skip setting if there is a DOW or you take control of a minor, and you can always react in the land phase. Isn't doing your reinforcement under these circumstances essentially wasting time?
I do get why diplomacy and naval skipping (except AU and PR) are not popular. Skipping these phases needs some sort of agreement amongst players to "do nothing" in order to rapidly advance a game through something like a winter of enforced peace/blockades.
Well, you might want to react to someone else's move. If you skip your next Reinf Phase and then your neighboring country starts to move aggresively toward you, it MIGHT be beneficial to have that Reinf Phase not be skipped. I can definitely see ways to take advantage of your "soon to be but he doesn't really know" enemy because he is deciding to skip some Reinf Phases, but by all means, if it works for you.
EDIT: I would REALLY like to see Dip and Eco phases done simul, as the Dip phase is pretty much SIMUL now except that the actual turns are done in order. The Eco doesn't effect much since builds are private. Reinf phase is another debate altogether.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:39 am
by iamspamus
Concur. Reinf (and game start setup) needs to be in order, so you can see what you opponent (or potential) opponent is doing.
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear
Hi Neverman
I have to ask what is the value of being able to adjust on the fly during the reinforcement phase, when you are at peace and have no reinforcements coming? Remember the game clears your skip setting if there is a DOW or you take control of a minor, and you can always react in the land phase. Isn't doing your reinforcement under these circumstances essentially wasting time?
I do get why diplomacy and naval skipping (except AU and PR) are not popular. Skipping these phases needs some sort of agreement amongst players to "do nothing" in order to rapidly advance a game through something like a winter of enforced peace/blockades.
Well, you might want to react to someone else's move. If you skip your next Reinf Phase and then your neighboring country starts to move aggresively toward you, it MIGHT be beneficial to have that Reinf Phase not be skipped. I can definitely see ways to take advantage of your "soon to be but he doesn't really know" enemy because he is deciding to skip some Reinf Phases, but by all means, if it works for you.
EDIT: I would REALLY like to see Dip and Eco phases done simul, as the Dip phase is pretty much SIMUL now except that the actual turns are done in order. The Eco doesn't effect much since builds are private. Reinf phase is another debate altogether.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:48 am
by Dancing Bear
Agree that sim dip and eco is the best, however, if you have the option to pre-program your rein during your dip, you have the option to toogle switch a "low alert" semi skipping peace mode, and the full monty during war, which gives the most flexibility.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:58 am
by borner
You may have 7 players yelling about when to do so and when not to in that case........ As I said before though, anything will help
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:08 pm
by borner
Marshall, what are the odds of Matrix getting you some assistance on this project? I understand you are doing all one person can, and I whole-heartedly salute you for your efforts. However, it seems to be a depressing pattern for Matrix to release a game before it is ready, and then lack the resources or desire - I am not sure which - to correct the issues. In some cases, especially one this complex, it is clear every problem cannot be expected or play tested before release. My issue is that it has been over a year from when many of us spent our money on this product, and Matrix admittted there were issues;but correcting them still seems to be just your problem. Yes, clearly the game is better than the first versions, due from what I can see almost all form your efforst, and in many ways "playable", but still not the quality product I expected for the price I paid.
Again Marshall, please do not take this as any insult or complaint towards you. Personally I think you are having more dumped on your plate than one person should reasonably expect.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:41 pm
by Rocko911
I am confused, is this game a fun game and working? or is it a mess of a game. I am looking to add a grand strategy game that is not WW2 period as I have many of those. I fondly remember a game for the Commodore 64 called Colonial Conquest by SSI. Thanks for any information on this game and its positives and negatives.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:21 pm
by pzgndr
LRRP, the game is playable, it is working, and it is fun. To a point. The "bugs" are mostly issues where EiANW deviates from the original EiA boardgame rules. Considering that EiANW started out as something different and is slowly being retrofitted to classic EiA, it remains highly debatable just how playable the game is. If you are not fixated on the original EiA and can play this game on its own merits, then it's fine and only getting better. Those who are fixated on the original EiA have been a miserable lot during this great adventure, but even they are slowly beginning to recognize that the game is improving and should eventually satisfy their demands. Mostly, maybe. On behalf of the rest of us enjoying this grand strategy Napoleonic wargame, the water's fine - jump on in. A v1.06 update should be available shortly with lots of significant improvements.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:04 pm
by NeverMan
It's an enjoyable game if you don't mind the ultra slow pace and occasional game stopping/changing bugs that come with every new patch.
If you plan on playing solo, I would say wait. The AI is not yet up to speed. That said, I don't recommend playing solo anyways, this game was never intended for that. It's best to play a few AI games to get used to the mechanics and then dive right in with PBEM (just make sure you let everyone know you are a newbie
).
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:15 am
by borner
well, knock me down to about 2.1 now. one game comes to a grinding hault when Spanish port guns refuse to fire.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:25 am
by NeverMan
ORIGINAL: borner
well, knock me down to about 2.1 now.
Where were you before and how did you get that high?
The bugs are seemingly endless and major bugs are starting to pop back up here and there. Is this because the game engine was designed to be a different game? Maybe that was Matrix's big mistake, who knows.
At this point I am only still playing the game because I once had an obsession with it (and I imagine I still do) and I can't seem to let it go, despite every reason to do so. I SO want this thing to be good and it continously lets me down.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:15 am
by borner
I had a period of looking at things from a "cup half full" point of view. Happens to the best of us sometimes.......... I guess that is the reason I am still playing, I do want this to work. It is so hard to find a decent group of 7 players that have free time every weekend. Besides, to me it's like voting, if you do not vote, you do not get to complain. I don't care if you are right wing, left, or center.
RE: playable yet? Part II
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:03 pm
by NeverMan
Well, even a blind man can/could see where this thing is headed so I guess I will just poke my eyes out and follow along.