Matrix Games Forums

Big mistake by the computer to not group rifle brigades together for divisions.

I tend to agree, but on the other hand, how many divisions can be build with 4 million men?

I think about 200-250 and the AI might feel this is not enough. Or does the same happen when is has more men?

T50:

After clearing up the 2 small pockets and reducing the large one by about 50% (25 units left in there) the Red Army lost 348k men, 4.6k guns and 598 AFVs with 56 lost units (42 divisions or corps, 14 brigades).

Only 2 corps and the Finns are left to deal with the northern pocket while the other units start to push east. I try to avoid the big swamp area and shift my units to the south. The 2 corps left for clean up duty will support the Finns in their eastward drive in the north once the pocket is cleared.

Another small pocket is created and the infantry make 60km towards Yaroslavl, but the major river remains uncrossed. And with my reinforcement priorities (refit) being in the south my troops are starting to get worn out here.

Around Tambov 3. Panzerarmee pushes towards Saransk after a hole in the front has been created by infantry. 4. Panzerarmee does the same further south and drives towards Penza.

In opening up the southern gap the Slovankian mot and Romanian armor proved to be quite usefull, both are at around 80 morale now.

The link up between the 2 Panzerarmeen is made between Saransk and Penza and 3. Panzerarmee even pulls back from Saransk after taking control of some hexes around it to link up further to the south. This allows 3 divisions of 4. Panzerarmee's LVI Panzer (its HQ actually) to remain closer to their own frontlines potentially being able to rush to Saratov on the next turn.

The resulting pocket contains about a dozen units (including 3 tank corps) in addition to 2 Soviet FBD units (any idea if you can capture/destroy the "real" - non automated - RR units or will they jump like HQs and airbases if attacked?), but those might be the automated kind.

Along the whole front some additional small pockets have been formed or are threatening to be formed, they are not very secure, but some should last and even the ones that are reopened will leave the Red Army weaker than before.

Parts of 11. Armee continue heading to the NE along the rail towards Stalingrad, they are just 80km away from it now and depending on the number of forces the Soviets manage to muster here or to the SE of LVI Panzer there might be an opion to for a very large (and very insecure) pocket here.

In order to add some range to the southern thrust of this possible operation XXIV and XXXXVI Panzer of 2. Panzerarmee are moved to the railhead to the east of Rostov.

XXXXVII Panzer helps with protecting 1. Panzerarmee's northern flank.

With a deep penetration to the east 9. Panzerdivision manages to cut the railline along the Caspian Sea to the south of the river Kuma, reinforcements (which will most likely be needed around Stalingrad soon anyway) are stopped even earlier now.

XL Panzer gets to within 30km of Makhachkala, adding to the Red Army's supply problems down here in the south. III Panzer is resting in the rear in the meantime and should be in a position to exploit the converted hexes towards Makhachkala on the next turn.


Huge losses from the pockets to the Red Army this turn, despite strong production 359k men, 6.6k guns, 692 tanks were lost overall (64 units, just 19 of them brigades, the others were larger formations). Depending on how many of the small pockets will last and together with the 25 units remaining in the northern pocket we could see similar (but still lower - about 60 units in there in total) numbers during the next turn.

I am really keen to give the large pocket based on Stalingrad a shot, but the Soviets will have to help me here, if one of the Panzerarmeen gets too many intervening units I will not be able to make it.

Remind me not to challenge you to a PBEM cause you roll right through the Russians[:D]

Hehe, vs. a human my army would already be smoking ruins I dare to say.

The AI is OK for a game like this, but I would be surprised if any old wargamer (once he remembers the rules and got used to the interface) will be beaten on "normal".

I am afraid that since the AI will not really punish minor mistakes most of the time that once you got the basic concept down you might actually start to play worse since the AI will let you get away with it.

My main issues with the AI at the moment are:
- staying in pockets when there are ways out
- not being decisive enough when it has the advantage (first blizzard)
- no strategic retreats (Stalin would have been proud ) thus wasting its troops instead of exhausting mine before making a stand/counterattacking

I am looking forward to playing a human here (being the Soviets in Road to Leningard) and hope that I have not become too spoiled by the AI

But I have read your AAR and dare to say that I most likely would have been steamrolled by you during the blizzards - I was already feeling uncomfortable vs. the AI there

I have to agree with that, in both my games my forces number almost 7 million for the blizzard and I dare say that with the pumped up army you get you can attack like mad and know you still have forces to put in reserve to dig in for the Germans rebound, and they will. I have been unable to really knock out the enemy. Soviet forces are just not good enough for that but they can liberate territory and make it harder on the German later on. In my next PBEM I do intend to play Russia much more historically, fighting more forward and counterattacking whenever I have a chance even if taking bad losses, just to see how things go. I will be semi randomly reckless[:D], kind of pretending my job and life are on the line if I fail.

Yes, I think retreat-counterattack-retreat... might be a viable tactic for the Soviets, you might lose another million men, but the delays and the XP/morale some of the units have gained could be worth it in the long run.

That's why I actually like playing the RtL scenario as my first Soviet game, you simply have no room to run really far

Just took a look at the result for T50 and since I bashed the AI before I just have to show this one.

That's what you get for disregaring the AI and having forgotten that you moved the combat unit away from the southernmost HQ.

Nice catch by the AI, especially since I flew some fuel to those HQs, this will set me back by about 2 turns.

edit: "had" and "a brave", oh well, it's late here

Your game is ending a lot like mine did. The defense disintegrates everywhere after a few pockets in early 1942...

T51:

Ok, all the pockets held which is a big surprise and has to be blamed on the AIs capabilities again, some would have been fairly easy to open.

61 units (just 17 brigades again) with 380k men, 4.7k guns and 246 AFVs were destroyed in the pockets, most likely the Red Army will below the Wehrmacht's strength in everything but planes by the end of the turn.

With the northern pocket cleared 18. Armee moves north to encircle the swamp from the northern side while 16. Armee will surround it from the south, the Finns and parts of 16. Armee hold the western side.

Around Boguchar the Red Army has retreated in a large scale (it was not even under threat of getting pocketed here), I wonder where those units were send (Stalingrad and the Urals are 2 possibilities that come to my mind).

To the west of Yaroslavl a bridgehead has been established across the Volga.

Due to my HQ blunder in the south I feel that I have to make up for it somehow and will go for the large pocket around Stalingrad (well, actually I wanted to do this anyway ), to the east of Saratov I seem to be facing only 1 cav corps and around 30! airbases and 10! HQs.

For the first phase XXXXI Panzer heads south from Penza and forces the cav corps to retreat in addition to cutting a swath through the airbases. I did some airfield bombing (only TACs and LBs who have already flown missions - will need the other ones for supply flights)before since I am curious how much damage I can do with some overruns here, but with all this Soviet airpower around my planes got pretty much mauled - about 40 losses for 20 destroyed planes in the air).

LVI follows and manages to get up to the river Ilovlya, displacing more units while getting a large number of controlled hexes as a buffer vs. potential counterattacks - which can happen anyway with the MPs of those guards cav.

From the south 11. Armee pushes forward and gets within 20km of Stalingrad. XXIV and XXXXVI Panzer follow in their wake. They manage to occupy undefended S Stalingrad, but Stalingrad itself is defended by a lvl2 fort and 3 rifle divisions.

The overruns destoyed about 390 additional planes - essentially not even putting a dent in the Soviet air masses. With the pocket closed about 40 units are sitting in there, but with half of them either HQs or airbases I doubt there will be that many fish left in the net on the next turn if the pocket holds.

Along the coast of the Black Sea Sukhumi is taken by Hungarian armor.

Around Baku I am forced to wait till my units have recovered from the HQ blunder.

And it seems like the Italians will not get their planes back anytime soon, I disband the remaining airbase and the HQ.

Close call here, the Red Army still has more troops than the Wehrmacht. Without the 5 fresh infantry divisions I got this turn basically nothing would have changed. The Red Army lost around 310k men (so still getting about +100k each turn), 4.3k guns (+ 0.8k/turn) and 210 AFVs (only +36/turn? - seems very low).

The war is over, now it is just the question of when the surrender will take place.

And finally some nice CVs

This should be usefull at Stalingrad.

Well everything must come to an end, sadly even this great AAR

I'm wondering about those allied inf units you left on the Crimea, what are their purpose ? Guard against amphib attacks ?

And the OKH units in the south, you were unable to find a HQ for them I assume (wanting to avoid overload) ?

Thank you, I will play this one till the end, but will limit the AAR to broader overvies now.

And yes, I use the allied infantry as guards against amphibious attacks, but doubt that the AI would have tried anything in the state it is in.

And yes, I kept those IDs in the south under OKH to avoid overload at any point in the chain of command and all the corps, armies and even Army Group A are only 1-2 points below their command limits.

T 52:

In the north 5 infantry divisions are not enough to dislodge a single Soviet rifle division from heavy woods with a lvl2 fort, but at least they lost 1.7k men (of 11k) and 1 fort level while the Wehrmacht lost 0.5k men (of 40.2k).

The Volga is crossed in force by 16. Armee.

Saransk is taken again by infantry of 3. Panzerarmee, the mobile units are still resting.

As feared the pocket is largely devoid of combat units, only in the north and south some remain. In the end another 27 units (half of them brigades this time) with 137k men and 1.8k guns are captured, 2 units remain for the next turn.

A rifle corps is defending Stalingrad now, a CV of around 75 with a lvl 2 (82%) fort is not something I want to assault directly. The city will be isolated.

2. Panzerarmee just fails to isolate Stalingrad on this turn due to additonal rifle corps preventing the closing of the pocket, but the rail is cut. It seems like the Soviets have amassed some of their best units here. The interesting question is if they will fight or run.

Depending on what happens around Stalingrad I will likely move one of my Luftflotten to the north in order to support the attacks there since this is the region where I expect the most heavy resistance now.

1. Panzerarmee starts its drive to Baku and Makhachkala is taken (any idea if I can get supplies from this port as the Axis?).

3 new IDs arrive in the south, I have to close that gap that I have left to the north of Grozny.

There is a large gap in the front between Stalingrad and Saratov, too, but I doubt that the Soviets will be able to use it. In addition with 4. Panzerarmee being around there and resting this turn I am fairly confident that I would be able to stop anything the Red Army might throw at me, maybe even resulting in another pocket.

VPs are at 266, still some way to go and there are some impressive distances/bad terrain involved before I will get there. This will cost a lot of panzers while the Soviets have time to recover, but I still can't see them making a rebound.

For the first time the Wehrmacht is fielding more infantry than the Red Army, but this will change again with the next turn.

Wehrmacht figueres are largely unchanged, but the Red Army lost about 50k men, 0.8k guns and 62 AFVs. So the Soviet production figueres match what I saw last (+100k men, +0.8k guns) except for AFVs which still have me a bit mystified, but likely due to vehicle breakdowns and repairs.

No idea if people are still looking for T53 loss/manpower data, but here it is (start of T53):

Just keep in mind that this is vs. "normal" AI and the AI has been pretty much mauled during the '41 offensive - Leningrad/Moscow/Rostov were taken by turn 17 and held throughout the winter.

T 53:

In the north the Volga is crossed for the second time by 16. Armee while 9. Armee continues its slow advance towards the east.

The mobile units of 3. Panzerarmee get into position for their drive to Ulyanovsk while the infantry starts to create a gap.

A small pocket is created around Saratov and Engels, but it is not very secure since I want to keep 4. Panzerarmee resting for next turns drive to Kuybyshev.

1. Luftflotte with 4 airbases (no transports) is railed to the north, while 2. Luftflotte with 9 airbases remains at the center.

The defenders of Stalingrad tried to flee the city, but I manage to form a pocket around them leaving them only a way out through 3 ZOCs and swamp hexes.

I try to reach Baku, but due to a fairly large number of defenders I fall 20km short, but should be able to take it on the next turn.

A bit to the north I try to isolate the remaining southern portion of the Soviet front to keep my line of supply safe from attacks, but fail to do so by 1 hex, but the rail line leading south is cut.

With 17. Armee not really needed around Stalingrad I will rail them to the south of Gorky to help with the infantry attacks. I might have to change my OOB for this, too.

As expected the Red Army regained some strength (+25k men, +0.7k guns, +91 AFVs), but still remains below the Wehrmacht's numbers. It seems like losing Stalingrad hurt the recruitment pool for the Soviets, only +80k men this turn, but their gun production has been very strong with +1.5k.

After the south has been mainly cleared after the next turn the focus will be the center and using it as a staging area for a drive to the Urals.

Main objective: Having the boys back home for Christmas

T54:

16. Armee makes good progress in the north, coming just short of Cherepovets and Vologda.

9. Armee comes just short of Yaroslavl which is pretty well defended.

3. Panzerarmee occupies Ulyanovsk and cuts to the south, meeting up with XXXXI Panzer of 4. Panzerarmee who took Syzran.

4. Panzerarmee's LVI Panzer runs into heavy defenses around Kuybyshev and it looks like I will have to try to encircle those during the next turn (priority for air supplies is with 4. PzA due to this).

The Stalingrad pocket and the smaller pocket to the north of it are eliminated, yielding 160k men and 1.6k guns from the 8+4 units in there (mainly division+ size units).

Some new small pockets are formed to the south of Stalingrad and the units to the north of Grozny should be isolated now - I will have to watch out that they dont displace any of my units as their final moves.

In the Kaukasus the Romanian MTN make it to Batumi which is fairly well defended while the Hungarian armor manages to force a bridgehead across the river Rioni.

The 5. Gebirgsdivision manages to climb Mount Elbrus, the highest mountain in the Kaukasus and raises the German flag at its summit (I have decided that hex 134/129 is the location, but am not sure about it - at least the map looks slightly like a mountain peak there ).

Around Baku the final assualt is launched at the Soviet defenses. The first attack by 3 Panzerdivisionen is repelled by the rifle division defending Baku, but the second attack made by 2 divisions drives the defenders from the city. And with Baku serving as a railhead the supply problems should be over - my RR unit just came within 20km of Grozny.

With the load from having to move 1. Panzerarmee out of the south I have decided that 17. Armee will not rail to the north, but rather walk.

2. Panzerarmee pulled back a bit towards Stalingrad for some rest.


Again the Soviets lost more men they they were able to replace (-95k) in addition to -1k guns, but they regained about 80 AFVs. And with the current pockets and the ones about to be formed this trend should continue.

12 (or 13?) additional VPs are needed and with a bit of luck I should be able to get them in the next 2 turns.

BTW, how to read the VP victory screen, do I need 290 or more than 290 VPs for a decisive victory?

The moment you hit 290 the victory cut scene will play then the victory splash screen (like in the short scenarios). You can choose to continue the turn but you will be limited in what you can do because a lot of tools will be removed.

Thank you, so unless I miscalculated or the AI has another surprise for me this one should be over by turn 56.