Page 14 of 15
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:57 am
by Redmarkus5
Aha - thanks. I hadn't noticed that before... Nice touch
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:57 am
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: nicwb
[quoteThats because its been broken until the latest patch. ]
So now all the WITPAE tragics can play WITE without suffering complete withdrawal symptoms ? [;)]
[/quote]
Yep - I plan to island hop all the way to Berlin!
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:59 pm
by Redmarkus5
TURN 40 - Kuban-Kerch
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:00 pm
by Redmarkus5
TURN 40 - Dnepr
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:01 pm
by Redmarkus5
TURN 40 - Dnepropetrovsk
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:04 pm
by Redmarkus5
TURN 40 - Air Losses.
Not much to show for the massive release to operational status of the new Red Air Force, but time will tell...
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:23 am
by randallw
Seems like you have a new avatar each week?
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:00 am
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: randallw
Seems like you have a new avatar each week?
Been looking for the right fit
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:36 am
by BletchleyGeek
Nice to see an amphibious op, the fact that you have made him to maneuver to counter it pays for it. The weeks he's going to spend moving, assaulting and going back to their positions are weeks spending fuel, supplies and getting fatigued.
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:29 am
by nicwb
[quoteYep - I plan to island hop all the way to Berlin!
][/quote]
Lol !
I look forward to seeing that !
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:49 am
by timmyab
Disappointed to see him do a "Dunkerque" out of the Taman, seems a bit unlikely.I thought those divisions were doomed for sure.I guess they will at least suffer appalling retreat attrition though?
What are your thoughts on amphib assaults?A bit overpowered maybe?
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:23 am
by FOW
Impressive 2nd amphibious landing of 6 divisions - kinda like D-Day in Normandy in '44.
Don't see how the Sovs had that much amphibious capability this early - abstracting this aspect seems a bit off IMHO.
as for the WITP:AE players out there (of which I'm one [;)]), if only doing amhpibious ops was this simple [:D]
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:26 pm
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: timmyab
Disappointed to see him do a "Dunkerque" out of the Taman, seems a bit unlikely.I thought those divisions were doomed for sure.I guess they will at least suffer appalling retreat attrition though?
What are your thoughts on amphib assaults?A bit overpowered maybe?
I think the evacuation represents the fact that I cut him off and attacked in the same turn - I was in a hurry. So it's actually a retreat abstracted over the one week turn and not a true Dunkerque...
The Amphib lift capability is hard to assess. I know that the Soviets did launch a significant naval landing in this very sector at about this stage of the war, but I need to research how many units were involved. What is underpowered is my ability to land supplies on the beach...
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:31 pm
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: FOW
Impressive 2nd amphibious landing of 6 divisions - kinda like D-Day in Normandy in '44.
Don't see how the Sovs had that much amphibious capability this early - abstracting this aspect seems a bit off IMHO.
as for the WITP:AE players out there (of which I'm one [;)]), if only doing amhpibious ops was this simple [:D]
The Soviet Kerch landings were a major event - 100,000 men, so I would say that my landings are actually a lot smaller as I have approx 4 divisions (40k men) and 4 Bdes (12k men). I found this in Wikipedia:
On 26 December 1941 the Soviets landed on Kerch, and on 30 December executed another landing near Feodosiya with the 44th and 51st Armies. The operation was to drive to Sevastopol and relieve the Garrison, now encircled by the German 11th Army.[3] The 46th Infantry Division under General Hans Graf von Sponeck was the only division in a position to be able to block the advance. Von Manstein believed it could contain the landing, but the Soviets captured the bridgeheads and defeated the Romanian brigades, Hansen chose to withdraw the XLII Corps from Kerch through the Parpach narrows to avoid being caught and encircled by Soviet forces advancing from the landing zones located at the extreme east (Kerch) and west (Feodosiya) of the peninsula. Manstein diverted XXX Corps to support XLII Corps, forming a new front at Feodosiya. They suceeded in sealing the Soviet armies in the Kerch peninsula. The Soviet landings had saved Sevastopol and siezed the initiative.[4] Casualties were high. The Germans lost 8,595 between the 17 and 31 December. The Soviets lost 7,000 killed and another 20,000 as prisoners of war.[5]
To slow the Soviet build-up, Alexander Löhr's Luftflotte 4 was sent to the region to interdict shipping. The 7,500 ton transport Emba was severely damaged on 29 January. Still, the Luftwaffe failed to prevent the transport of 100,000 men and hundreds of artillery pieces to Kerch between the 20 January and 11 February. At Sevastopol, 764 tons of fuel, 1,700 tons of supplies to the port. On 13 February the cruiser Komintern and destroyer Shaumyan brought in 1,034 soldiers and 200 supplies. The cruiser Krasny Krym and destroyer Dzerzhinskiy brought a further 1,075 men in on the 14 February. The next day the minesweeper T410 brought in 650 and evacuated 152. On 17 February the transport Belostok brought yet more in, some 871 men. The Black Seas Fleet regularly shelled German positions on the coast. The Luftwaffe increased its pressure, dispatching KG 27, KG 55 and KG 100 to bomb ports at Anapa, Tuapse and Novorossiksk on the Caucasian Black Sea coast. On 20 February the 1,900 ton transport Kommunist was sunk by KG 100.[6]
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:33 pm
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
Nice to see an amphibious op, the fact that you have made him to maneuver to counter it pays for it. The weeks he's going to spend moving, assaulting and going back to their positions are weeks spending fuel, supplies and getting fatigued.
Yes, I was thinking the same. He can't be happy about it given the state of his forces post-blizzard... And now he needs to look to his rear as I am attacking again on the Dnepr.
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:36 pm
by Q-Ball
I think the Kerch landings showed the Soviets could make a large amphib invasion, but a couple notes:
1. The distance for that move was pretty short, greatly simplifying the operation
2. The Reds DIDN'T prove they could logistically sustain a landing like that. In fact, kind of the opposite. Getting troops ashore takes shipping, but keeping them supplied takes about 5x the shipping, and is the tricky part. Landing against a couple Romanian brigades is the easy part.
I personally don't think a cross-Black Sea invasion was realistic for the Soviets. Does anyone disagree?
PS: Certainly what you did Red was within bounds of what's possible (because it was almost a carbon copy!), and not at all gamey. I think doing that, at this point near Romania would be beyond Soviet capabilities. Game can't model that.
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:38 pm
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I think the Kerch landings showed the Soviets could make a large amphib invasion, but a couple notes:
1. The distance for that move was pretty short, greatly simplifying the operation
2. The Reds DIDN'T prove they could logistically sustain a landing like that. In fact, kind of the opposite. Getting troops ashore takes shipping, but keeping them supplied takes about 5x the shipping, and is the tricky part. Landing against a couple Romanian brigades is the easy part.
I personally don't think a cross-Black Sea invasion was realistic for the Soviets. Does anyone disagree?
PS: Certainly what you did Red was within bounds of what's possible (because it was almost a carbon copy!), and not at all gamey. I think doing that, at this point near Romania would be beyond Soviet capabilities. Game can't model that.
100% agreed. And, in fact, I now have huge problems opening a gap (or a port) to supply my landed troops.
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:00 am
by FOW
I've not read the manual on Amphib Ops....
Perhaps supply only works through ports - they are obviously key with regards to Leningrad. So, as I see it, amphib landings on any coastal hex are possible but to maintain a supply path you need a port.
If the above is how it works then does that mean your units landed behind the lines are isolated ?
If Carnage can can attack and force a retreat/rout then would the result be a surrender ?
Perhaps this AAR will show us the way.....
We need a Dev to clarify the game code mechanics on this - or I need to RTFM
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:08 am
by Redmarkus5
Yes, I believe a port or a land link is needed for supply to work, although air supply will help. I was able to open a land link to my first landing with no problem, but the second one looks more challenging. A defeat here will result in some losses, but pulling all of the AGS armour south for 3-4 turns (it's taking him 2 turns just to move down there) is worth the cost.
RE: Operation Barbershop - Carnage(Ax) vs. Redmarkus(Sv)
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:48 am
by Redmarkus5
TURN 41 - Pushkin
A big heave here has liberated Pushkin. This will make any Axis attempt to take Leningrad a lot more challenging if I can get dug in.
