Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I wonder how long the Russian MOD budget can sustain a high-level of missile firing? Even as large as the US DoD budget is, they were feeling the pain even back in 90-91.

Depends how big the inventories are an if they are replacing 1:1. Offhand given their operations world wide its been a very expensive few years for them in general.

Mike

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The US is claiming 4 of the 26 missiles fired crashed while over flying Iran. There is debate about if the 4 were counted in the 26 or if 30 were fired.

Reliability rates might be pretty close to Tomahawk. Haven't seen a recent list but the US/UK tends to loose a few to failure as well. What's interesting is the US took an interest in reporting it.

Mike

Another thing to point out is this system is likely one of the reason the US invested so heavily in JLENS. How would the US fair against adversaries with similar long range strike capabilities? Its an interesting problem to ponder.

Mike

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

ORIGINAL: Dysta

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I wonder how long the Russian MOD budget can sustain a high-level of missile firing? Even as large as the US DoD budget is, they were feeling the pain even back in 90-91.

They just dispensing old stockpile of missiles which is about to be expired. Besides, even inferior missiles can still get the data result from launching them, which is exactly what Russia is needed for their missile deals in the future.

Where do you get this stuff[:)]

They're using weapons to hit targets. If there is any analysis to be done its whether or not the targets are worth the cost of the missile.

Mike

No, but I am fully certain they wouldn't entirely bring out some shiny new and expensive weapons on the 'savage of the land'. Russia is still the fourth biggest of military expense in the world, and several indication that economy and geopolitical factors hardly make Russia as uprising as expected. If not, they can bring PAK-FA and Kh-101 in actions for even bigger military propaganda and data analysis in Syria.

Klub and their derivatives are 80s tech, and expectably modernized with advance warhead and sensors, which is enough to hunt people down around 3 meters MOA, however, these are only theorial weapon performances. Faulty missiles are expected as Pentagon cautiously rebuffed to Russia.

Russia just don't give a damn at all, if they drops bombs and shoot missiles, then it is their game willing to play.

ORIGINAL: Dysta

No, but I am fully certain they wouldn't entirely bring out some shiny new and expensive weapons on the 'savage of the land'. Russia is still the fourth biggest of military expense in the world, and several indication that economy and geopolitical factors hardly make Russia as uprising as expected. If not, they can bring PAK-FA and Kh-101 in actions for even bigger military propaganda and data analysis in Syria.

Klub and their derivatives are 80s tech, and expectably modernized with advance warhead and sensors, which is enough to hunt people down around 3 meters MOA, however, these are only theorial weapon performances. Faulty missiles are expected as Pentagon cautiously rebuffed to Russia.

Russia just don't give a damn at all, if they drops bombs and shoot missiles, then it is their game willing to play.

A few days ago nobody would have thought they would have used the weapons they did and strike from the Caspian so I think guessing what weapons they'd use and not is pointless. What matters is the end result.

Mike

Well, the "end result" is an elusive beast, too. The proximate result--things go boom--is pretty easy to ascertain and verify. The ultimate, political result--the other guys do what you want them to--is a bit more difficult, as the US has learned all too well.

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

Well, the "end result" is an elusive beast, too. The proximate result--things go boom--is pretty easy to ascertain and verify. The ultimate, political result--the other guys do what you want them to--is a bit more difficult, as the US has learned all too well.

Agreed. Problem is no other major power has enough skin in the game yet to incur the cost to influence a conclusion. Nobody wants to admit this but I think maintaining the status quo is more desirable until an acceptable faction is found there. Russia has made its choice. We'll see how they do after the opening drive.

Mike

Next up....upgrade the facilities at Tartus, add a few newer ships to the 5th Med Squadron and a few more planes to Latakia. Assad will be in power for decades. Why shoot from the Caspian when you can do it from the Eastern Med?

I was working on a Scenario called "Syria Later"....now Putin has ruined it for me by stealing my idea.

Nearly making the Syria becomes the center of the world when Russia did this. Well, looks like Syria is an unbreakable rope to be tugged by east and west for a long while then.

But, I perfer to maintain focus on weapon performances more than political debates.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I wonder how long the Russian MOD budget can sustain a high-level of missile firing? Even as large as the US DoD budget is, they were feeling the pain even back in 90-91.

firs series of 3M14 end of warranty period of operation expires in 2018-19 so money already spent

Money already spent but it still goes down as a consumable on the budget...no matter what economic theories you follow.

My take on it is that even though the targets hardly warrant an expensive cruise missile, it's an opportunity to test out a system under real world conditions. Also I think the ships that fired those missiles are also available for sale internationally. This is an excellent opportunity at free advertising of a weapon systems capabilities.

Bear in mind the targets don't have any working networked anti-air systems, it's more a show of capability.

Here's a video of two of the missile flying over northern Iraq the other day.
https://youtu.be/2b2Pzxbzvsk



Contrast with some 1991 Tomahawk flybys near a camera crew.
https://youtu.be/2vhxDjh27Cc

https://youtu.be/gbmfFz-zEPs?list=FLUbMa9kEYoLP3_Zlc2nzVPA

From my perspective, we'd do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself to sell our systems.

The Russian Navy and Air Force know they have very little combat operational experience in a modern environment. This is a good opportunity to show that their systems can do whatever the US can do.

Exactly.


Additionally with the recent footage of Russian airstrikes being shown from the perspective of the targeting systems as featured in the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxlbHNwo8YY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_HZJ55w8Qc



By Contrast, French airstrikes using FLIR in the presence of ordinance going off:
https://youtu.be/LP_abtKwARs

Kiowa firing rockets on targets in Iraq from a US drone FLIR:

https://youtu.be/rMROMiDeVk0

I am surprised and interested by two things.

1. The FLIR imagery is of a very low quality compared to what is available today on strike aircraft in the West. The scene is completely lost when a hot object is in the field of view, this demonstrates a lack of processing algorithms to adjust gain and contrast to keep the entire scene in view. This effect can be seen on US Flir imagery from the 1991 war for comparison.

2. The FLIR is running at only about 8FPS, they are intentionally restricted in framerate as this is in accordance with a Western designed FLIR that is following Export regulations to other countries. FLIR systems usually run at 60Hz or more when possible to limit lag and not miss important details of the scene or for tracking moving objects.

ORIGINAL: AlmightyTallest


1. The FLIR imagery is of a very low quality compared to what is available today on strike aircraft in the West. The scene is completely lost when a hot object is in the field of view, this demonstrates a lack of processing algorithms to adjust gain and contrast to keep the entire scene in view. This effect can be seen on US Flir imagery from the 1991 war for comparison.

2. The FLIR is running at only about 8FPS, they are intentionally restricted in framerate as this is in accordance with a Western designed FLIR that is following Export regulations to other countries. FLIR systems usually run at 60Hz or more when possible to limit lag and not miss important details of the scene or for tracking moving objects.

this videos not from strike aircraft but from "Forpost" (aka Israel made "Searcher") UAV

Thanks for the info Triode. That would match up with some Israeli export FLIR imagery I've seen recently.


Iraqi Mi-35 FLIR imagery shows the same limitation, but with a much higher framerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dii6bwvJ-2Q

Will these be in the next Database?it would be nice if they were, North Korean Copies of Chinese/Russian Drones,Here is the link. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 51003.aspx

ORIGINAL: Glenn Beasley

Will these be in the next Database?it would be nice if they were, North Korean Copies of Chinese/Russian Drones,Here is the link. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 51003.aspx

I believe the generic UAV (civilian) would be a nice addition, as well as its IR camera or SAR versions of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=0&v=5Y0dyZK8yxU

Iraqi Chinese imported CH-4 UAVs in service.

PACIFIC 2015 news coverage (Australia): http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -news.html

PACIFIC 2015 pictures and video coverage: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3142