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ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

A question regarding sweeps with the best Allied fighters.

So far I'm really struggling with the Corsair's and P-47's.

I don't know if it's the targets I'm choosing and if it's not a mistake to go against the tough nuts. I've tried high and low sweeps, but it seems in either case radar is putting the defence higher than my sweeps. If I get coordinated sweeps the warning time is substantial, regardless of altitude. I thought perhaps if I flew lower, I'd provide less warning time, but again radar is getting the CAP higher in time to eliminate any chance of getting the bounce. I'm also having to fly at drop tank range so that doesn't help either.

All I know is I've read so many AAR's where the P-47's and Corsair's were unbeatable. I'm achieving no better than 2:1 at best and more often than not barely reaching 1:1. I'm obviously not employing these fighters properly.

Erik is flying low CAP, I get it. It seems to be the flavor of the month right now, but why is it effective? I think radar is the key regardless of the altitude of the CAP. If radar gets the CAP up above the sweepers in time, it doesn't matter what altitude the sweep comes in at. I'm getting neither boom, nor zoom, with the Allied fighters. Not sure what else to do.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Droptanks have nothing to do with it. Drop tanks simply extend your normal and max ranges at the cost of increased supply.

No, your results are very similar to what I've seen. I'm not really sure how some allied players get those invincible fighters, but I haven't seen it. Once the Japanese player uses his tools correctly (radar, layered CAP, advanced airframes, solid pilots and leaders), you are going to have to accept that you can't dictate terms.

You need to think in terms of an air campaign, and not a battle (or even series of battles). The advanced Japanese airframes have speed nearly the same as you and much better maneuver. They also have a high service rating and can't stay up for many turns in a row.
So in order to beat them, first you need to set an objective and use that to define your targets. For example, you want to get supplies into Ramree. So your targets will be airbases that can launch large naval strikes. Then you need to get your pieces into place, and go every day. Fatigue in the 20s? Go - his is worse. 13 airframes ready in a group? go - he only has 12.

A few tactical pointers.
Make sure you start with enough. He may reinforce, so make sure you have at least equal numbers to start. More is always better. Make sure your infrastructure can support it (airfield size, AV support, supply lines).
Maneuver is king. That means spit VIIIs - especially first (the first group in takes the most punishment - later groups mop up kills)
I think I have observed lower sweeps arrive first more often than not.
Keep to middle altitudes, at least to start.
Bombers destroying airfields are the best way to kill his fighters. Airbase hits lower moral of the units stationed there and slow / prevent repairs. He can't stay when air base damage if high. Runway damage turns good airframes into down airframes and damaged airframes into dead airframes. Even if his fighters are in the air, those runway hits turn into op kills and damaged airframes (that are slow to repair).

My typical alpha strike on an enemy position would have
1 to 3 spit XIII squadrons around 15k'-16k'
2-5 Jug squadrons around 18k'-20k'
Any corsair squadrons I can spare between the above 2.
LRCAP over the target (with range set to 0) of P38s (or F6s in a pinch) around 30k'. Early spitfires work if the range is real short. Jugs are good if you have extra to spare. These guys you will need 2x the groups, as they will get to fatigue in the 30s after a day. These are the only guys I rest.
LRCAP over target at lower altitude of P40s or some other trash you have laying around (this is the least critical - I often don't even do this)
Bombers, bombers, more bombers, and a few more bombers at 7k or lower (I want to hit the target, not bomb the jungle)
escorts for the bombers.

next turn, anything that can still fly. If he likes to move around, it will be a different target. If he doesn't, it will be a short war.
Turn after that, anything that can still fly. and so on and so on.

I also like to start with undefended targets if possible. So if he has 3 airbases you want to hit, but has all his A/C at 2 of them... hit the undefended one first. After that, I want to hit the most defended one (to engage as many of his A/C as possible - that whole service rating thing). And stay on it until it is dead.

Remember, the enemy bleeds too.

Thanks for the post tiemanj. You're right, I have to look at air combat in terms of a marathon, not a sprint. Erik's too good of a player not to set everything up to his advantage, and he knows the mechanics of air combat far better than I do.

I tried to implement your tactics in Burma, but the AI sent the bombers in first and it's taken a month to recover. I'm still trying to find the sweet spot, but I will approach the next air offensive differently and much more in line with your philosophy.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm no expert and hopefully some who are will chime in, but I have to guess that drop tank range is depressing your performance.

Thanks Hans. I mentioned earlier if it's having to fly at range that is reducing their performance, so I don't doubt you are right in saying it's not helping. I'm at max range with the P-47's, so perhaps I need to dial it back a bit and get some closer bases set up. The short 6-7 range of the P-47 doesn't make it easy, and being so close to Japanese bases doesn't bode well to prevent naval bombardments. I'm still experimenting with settings, but nothing is working so far.

I love fighting at close range. And by close I mean 5 or less hexes. P47s do great defending at range 0 and sweeping at short ranges.

You may be seeing the other side of the coin as I almost never use drop tanks.

Jan. 14/44:

The Allied amphibious armada bound for Rabaul will reach the hex east of Kirakira tomorrow. I'm concerned about the 11kt speed of many of my amphibious taskforces which has a 3(2) movement rate. There is going to be early warning of my approach. I was going to attempt an air ambush with my CV forces, by sacrificing an empty transport taskforce sailing ahead of the main invasion force to draw out a Japanese response, but felt it would be too hard to coordinate. I also didn't want to risk my main amphibious taskforces to air attack without the carriers providing CAP. I have to remember that Japanese LB naval strikes have almost double the range of their ship borne counterparts.

There are a number of Japanese submarines in the area and naval liberator's based at Russell Island have been tasked with spotting and suppressing them.

When my naval forces rendezvous near Kirakira tomorrow, it will take three days to sail to Shortlands for the first landing of this operation. Two days after that I'll land at Rabaul and Feni Island, then another day to reach Kavieng. So, if all goes well and I don't misjudge my movements, I'll land at four targets within the next seven days.

The main air offensive against Japanese positions will commence tomorrow. I hope to be able to sustain seven days of constant LBA air attacks in the region to take the heat off the navy.

To say the next few days are going to be interesting for me would be an understatement.

I'm surprised you are having issues with P-47s in sweeps. I've definitely had issues with P-38s and Corsairs but there's no Japanese plane until very late that is close to as fast as the P-47. What do your pilots look like? When I crew my Thubderbolts with 80+ exp pilots I usually get over 5-1 ratios. Sometimes over 10-1.

SqzMyLemon, I can't believe you still have problems with sweeping. Just put your best fighter pilots in best airframes in one group, break down the group into A/B/C to get low IDs for the subunits, sweep and watch the Japs die. It is a computer game and in each turn, units (TFs, air groups, LCUs) enter combat according to their number in unit hierarchy.

I was going to do a proper update last night, but didn't get a chance to.

I'm falling behind events in the AAR and there is so much going on in the game right now. It's a question of play the turn or update the AAR, and I'd rather keep the mojo flowing. I'll try to find some time to do a proper update on the Solomons and New Britain campaigns soon. Without screenshots, the updates are lacking the visual flow of how events are unfolding.

A quick synopsis.

Allied forces have landed at Feni Islands, Kavieng, Rabaul and Shortlands.

There have been intense air battles over Rabaul. Allied LB fighter and bomber units have been decimated trying to suppress Rabaul, but large numbers of Japanese fighters have been destroyed. Unfortunately, consistently poor weather over Rabaul has limited the damage to the airbase.

Japanese LB naval air strikes have not penetrated the Allied CAP resulting in heavy enemy bomber losses.

Allied mistakes in issuing orders has resulted in a number of task forces being out of position, including the crucial carriers. A Japanese SCTF consisting of two battleships successfully penetrated into the midst of the amphibious taskforces and sank two CVE's (56 Hellcats and pilots lost) and heavily damaging a light cruiser and destroyer.

Day two of unloading amphibious taskforces lies ahead. The Japanese Wake CD unit is at Rabaul and wreaking havoc against Allied shipping.

Allied ground assaults will occur at Kavieng and Shortlands next turn.

Assaults against Feni Islands and Rabaul will be delayed until more troops and supply are ashore.

How will the Japanese react tomorrow? Are there more SCTF's inbound? Are the Japanese carriers close? Will there be further heavy LB naval air strikes?

To say I'm nervous about the next turn would be an understatement.

Just received the next turn from Erik so I only have six hours to wait until I can run the replay and see how things went.

I did get a "nice job" from Erik, so I can only hope that bodes well. Results are so subjective though, so a good job from your opponent may not mean what you think it does. [:D]

I'll try to update in detail next time. I have to switch gears somewhat though and concentrate on my other game. This operation has taken up a fair amount of my AE time, but my priority is my PBEM with fcharton. I need to get back on track with that one.

Correction!

Really game designers? I lose 57 SBD's flying ASW search at a range of 0 with my carriers one hex away from Rabaul. They're drawn to Rabaul's CAP like a moth to flame to get slaughterd.

That is just stupid.

Ridiculous

Laughable

I could go on and on.

Why does this game have to arbitrarily punish a player through no fault of their own. Can't one side just have a good day rather then even things up with BS mechanics?

Perchance a synch bug?

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Correction!

Really game designers? I lose 57 SBD's flying ASW search at a range of 0 with my carriers one hex away from Rabaul. They're drawn to Rabaul's CAP like a moth to flame to get slaughterd.

or did the CAP drift to you? If he set his CAP to 1 hex ...

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Perchance a synch bug?

I wish. One SBD squadron alone lost 10 aircraft. I get some bleeding into another hex, but 50+ is crazy.

This is just as bad as what happens to my 4E's. Almost half my bombers flying from the same base are sent in with little or no escort and in individual squadrons. So my bomber losses are horrendous, because half of them are committed with no chance of survival. It's these kinds of things that just make me hate this game at times.

I can't help, but get upset when this crap happens.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Correction!

Really game designers? I lose 57 SBD's flying ASW search at a range of 0 with my carriers one hex away from Rabaul. They're drawn to Rabaul's CAP like a moth to flame to get slaughterd.

or did the CAP drift to you? If he set his CAP to 1 hex ...

I don't think so. The replay clearly showed my SBD's on ASW getting chewed up over Rabaul chasing midget subs. I just don't like such an extreme number of aircraft lost. I mean that's fifty highly trained pilots and good airframes, because of a game mechanic that can't put the brakes on.

What is your night bombing HR?

I think you have to sweep or bypass.

Too often nothing ever goes right. The bigger the plan, the more often it fails. In fact, nothing does go correctly.

Rules to follow. Don't overstack. Don't overload the runway. Have 1 AV support for each plane. Have an Air HQ with great leader. Don't fly bombers if you just moved them from one base to another.

Fly all bombers and escorts at the same altitude. Have some fighters on LRCAP.

Sweep at different altitudes from closer bases preferably.

The more you bomb the same base, day in day out, the better the coordination seems to get. So for the first raid don't swing for the fences but put 70% of the bombers on rest and perhaps fly at a higher altitude. Or put only one squadron on the bombing run and rotate them in and out.

Japan has how many SR3 planes? Keep him flying.

Check all your leaders. I like low aggression bomber leaders as they seem to fly only with better coordination with fighters, but not too low else they won't fly.

Have lots of supply.

I set the HQa to target the base. Supposedly doesn't help, but I like to do it.

If HR allows it, fly one squadron at night to harass and raise MDL.

I'd tell you to max your DL, but I think you would bite my head off.[:D]

Embrace the air grind![;)]

Of course, I am probably all wrong here.[;)]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What is your night bombing HR?

I think you have to sweep or bypass.

Too often nothing ever goes right. The bigger the plan, the more often it fails. In fact, nothing does go correctly.

Rules to follow. Don't overstack. Don't overload the runway. Have 1 AV support for each plane. Have an Air HQ with great leader. Don't fly bombers if you just moved them from one base to another.

Fly all bombers and escorts at the same altitude. Have some fighters on LRCAP.

Sweep at different altitudes from closer bases preferably.

The more you bomb the same base, day in day out, the better the coordination seems to get. So for the first raid don't swing for the fences but put 70% of the bombers on rest and perhaps fly at a higher altitude. Or put only one squadron on the bombing run and rotate them in and out.

Japan has how many SR3 planes? Keep him flying.

Check all your leaders. I like low aggression bomber leaders as they seem to fly only with better coordination with fighters, but not too low else they won't fly.

Have lots of supply.

I set the HQa to target the base. Supposedly doesn't help, but I like to do it.

If HR allows it, fly one squadron at night to harass and raise MDL.

I'd tell you to max your DL, but I think you would bite my head off.[:D]

Embrace the air grind![;)]

Of course, I am probably all wrong here.[;)]

Appreciate the tips. I've done 90% of those things on a regular basis. As far as I'm concerned the air model is complete luck. I have no control over how the AI splits up my raids. I just get tired of padding Japanese stats due to what the AI does with my forces. The B-24's aren't that durable either, they're getting slaughtered when sent in small packets with no escorts, and that is fully over half my losses every time I send a bomber raid. In my books that's BS, but it's how the game works.

I might add, the three days in a row I bombed the weather over Rabaul was severe storms twice and thunderstorms. When it rains it pours they say. Had the weather been better Rabaul might have been shut down.

Complaining about it is a waste of time. I wish I didn't care. I'm almost at that point though, because losses be damned I still have to play the game and send out raids.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Correction!

Really game designers? I lose 57 SBD's flying ASW search at a range of 0 with my carriers one hex away from Rabaul. They're drawn to Rabaul's CAP like a moth to flame to get slaughterd.

or did the CAP drift to you? If he set his CAP to 1 hex ...

I don't think so. The replay clearly showed my SBD's on ASW getting chewed up over Rabaul chasing midget subs. I just don't like such an extreme number of aircraft lost. I mean that's fifty highly trained pilots and good airframes, because of a game mechanic that can't put the brakes on.

If you attempt to bombard a base with mines and a naval fortress and the player on the other side puts any naval force into the hex the bombardment fleet suddenly becomes a surface task force and drives into the mines... Turn after turn after turn...

Some things in this game are modeled poorly and dont have controls to properly adjust what you would do in real life.

In this case, maybe setting only 1 or 2 groups to ASW at 10% so you are only flying 10 or 12 planes to protect your dive bombers.

There is almost always a workaround for the issues even if it is cumbersome.

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

In this case, maybe setting only 1 or 2 groups to ASW at 10% so you are only flying 10 or 12 planes to protect your dive bombers.

There is almost always a workaround for the issues even if it is cumbersome.

That's a great idea. I just wish there didn't have to be a workaround for almost every aspect of this game. If the results weren't so extreme it would be bearable otherwise.

The other reason this really bothers me is the Japanese lost almost 300 planes today. Losing 50+ SBD's like this ruined an otherwise great day in the air for the Allies.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

The other reason this really bothers me is the Japanese lost almost 300 planes today. Losing 50+ SBD's like this ruined an otherwise great day in the air for the Allies.

I feel your pain. I have had many days like that... Mostly my fault though ;]

Jan. 20/44:

Rant aside what's the situation?

Kavieng:

I've landed two divisions here. The first assault achieves 2:1 and lowers the forts to 3, but the defence holds. I'm worried about Kavieng. Unfortunately, the amphibious taskforce with support units and supply for Kavieng was 'misplaced' in the flurry of recent activity, and is currently south of Feni Islands. I'll need the carriers to provide support for follow up amphibious taskforces.

Rabaul:

Over 2000 AV is ashore. Not enough supply has been unloaded, so I'll have to run the gauntlet of CD gunfire again to bring in follow up amphibious taskforces. I will check the disruption/fatigue of the ground units and might order a deliberate attack for next turn if warranted. I need to keep the pressure on and I have enough supply for an initial assault.

Feni Islands:

Not good. U.S. 37th Division was used for the landing here, but was prepped for another base. Heavy disruption was the result and the division is at half strength. I'll target the defenders with naval and air bombardments in support of an immediate ground assault. Follow up amphibious taskforces will begin unloading support units and supply immediately. Feni Islands needs to be taken and turned into a forward airbase as quickly as possible. In hindsight, I should have prepared a better amphibious landing for this target.

Shortlands:

The base is captured today. Airbase service damage is 48%, but I'll base fighters here immediately. I need to keep pressure on Rabaul's air defence. Additional aviation support will be airlifted in and engineers will get to work expanding the airfield.

The Navy:

The navy is in remarkable shape considering the pounding it has taken at Rabaul. I've only lost a handful of transports so far and the navy escorts at Rabaul are battered and bruised, but none are in danger of sinking. I used four old battleships and BC Repulse as direct fire support embedded in the amphibious taskforces. They will return to Tulagi where I hope to refuel and rearm them. I have many damaged cruisers and destroyers needing attention as well. I haven't used any of my modern battleships yet and I still have substantial naval assets to throw at the Japanese. I will reorganize my taskforces on the fly, and continue to provide support until the amphibious forces begin to make headway.

The Air Force:

Is hurting. 4E bomber units have been decimated. Fighter units are heavily fatigued and low on aircraft. I had withdrawn a few squadrons to rest and replenish, so they will be committed again to keep pressure on Rabaul. The 2E bombers will fly direct ground support missions against Feni Islands. I still have seven squadrons of 4E's in reserve. They will target Rabaul's airbase while the other ten squadrons recover. Most air units will only have a few days to recover, then they will be thrown into combat again.

What's next?

Defensively, I'll use the air units recovering to perform CAP over the Solomons and my returning taskforces. I will set up naval air strikes in case Erik throws in any surface forces from the Marshall's. I'll also defend against the numerous dot bases in the area. I know Erik likes to back fill with float planes to hit LOC's, so I'll defend against this as best I can. I'll use CVE's and CVL's to protect my LOC's against both air and surface threats.

Offensively, I will take the contested bases as quickly as possible. The next invasion targets are already chosen and the assault units preparing for. I have USMC 2nd Division, U.S. 6th Division, and numerous regiments and armor units available. The priority will be defending my LOC's and getting complete control of the airspace over Rabaul and the Solomons. Fuel and supply are being moved forward to sustain operations. Aircraft fighter pools are in OK shape, so most squadrons just need time to recover fatigue and replenish.

Thoughts:

I made a ton of mistakes conducting these landings, but then again I went sooner than I was ready. I'll get everything sorted and prepare for the next amphibious invasions while I consolidate my position. I'll take what I've learned and apply it moving forward. Once Rabaul is secure, I'll be hitting Erik on New Guinea proper and moving against the Gilbert Islands. I don't want to give Erik any breathing space. I will be driving my forces hard and going right at the Japanese. I will refine my air tactics to hopefully reduce the losses, but right now I'm pushing my forces to their limits and beyond to get this done.