ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Ok, what source besides your opinion will you accept?
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Ok, what source besides your opinion will you accept?
Well, I have told you what my understandings of the various types of camps are, can we use those definitions perhaps?
ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton
Its very weird that my college will accept Wiki as a source, but, alas, the esteemed PzJgr Hortland won't...
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.
Hardly - University of Maryland. Seeing how a few of my professors (shockingly!!!) have added their knowledge to some of the technology entries, I guess any clown can claim to be knowledgeable on a given subject - guess they're handing out PhD's to any bozo these days....ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton
Its very weird that my college will accept Wiki as a source, but, alas, the esteemed PzJgr Hortland won't...
Yes, considering that anyone can write pretty much whatever they want in a wikipedia entry, it is quite weird that your college accepts wiki as a source. What college is that? Clown college?
ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed
... north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.
Now maybe these protections don't apply to civilian citizens convicted of real crimes (rather than just talking about how stupid the government is) in a court of law. I will admit that in the US certain states still have road gangs for less violent criminals, and maybe all these people were convicted in a court of law but according to the text of the GENEVA CONVENTIONS published by the International Red Cross:ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed
... north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.
Ah, maybe we are getting to the heart of the confusion now. In Sweden there was a legal punishment called forced labour, meaning that a person could be sentenced to forced labour instead of prison. This is probably what happened, and that could be the source of the missunderstanding in the wiki-entry. These force labour-punishments usually went to areas far up north where the convicts were set to build roads or raillines etc.
Building roads in the middle of no-where strikes me as military activity which would be a violation. if it's not a military activity why are they being built headed towards a war zone. And BTW - the part you quoted came from the article in the hunting travelogue not the Wiki entry. I don't know who the hunter is quoting. It possibly could be the area residents.Art. 15. Any Party to the conflict may, either direct or through a neutral State or some humanitarian organization, propose to the adverse Party to establish, in the regions where fighting is taking place, neutralized zones intended to shelter from the effects of war the following persons, without
distinction:
(a) wounded and sick combatants or non-combatants;
(b) civilian persons who take no part in hostilities, and who, while they reside in the zones, perform no work of a military character
What's the difference other than the connotation of the words?ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.
Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?
ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed
Now maybe these protections don't apply to civilian citizens convicted of real crimes (rather than just talking about how stupid the government is) in a court of law.
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
What's the difference other than the connotation of the words?ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.
Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?
ORIGINAL: Dino
ORIGINAL: mjk428
When you're in a total war, you don't worry about referring to the enemy in a polically correct way for fear of offending the fragile sensibilities of Europeans decades later. Even if it might result in a strongly worded letter from the UN for the use of racially charged words like "they" and "them".
Whether you want to admit it or not, those words ARE racially charged when used in a certain context...Like in describing the "stinking savages" that are now "downright reasonable" after being "gentled" by firebombing.
Used by itself, word "savages" is just another word...so is the word "stinking".
So no "enemy combatant" (If they were airmen they were POWs not enemy combatants seeing they were in uniform) has ever been put in a Concentration Camp? I can call an object a seat and you can call it a recliner but it doesn't change the fact that it's a chair.ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
What's the difference other than the connotation of the words?ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?
What do you call the place where you put interned enemy combatants that have entered your territory? In Sweden we had lots of allied airmen for example, who decided it was better to crash-land in Sweden, rather than to be captured in Germany. We put these airmen in camps, we called these camps "internment camps". What do you call them?
What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
So no "enemy combatant" (If they were airmen they were POWs not enemy combatants seeing they were in uniform) has ever been put in a Concentration Camp?
It depends on what I'm trying to portray but essentially they are both internment camps.ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
So no "enemy combatant" (If they were airmen they were POWs not enemy combatants seeing they were in uniform) has ever been put in a Concentration Camp?
How the heck should I know? Just answer the question instead of shifting the goalposts.
Edit: And no, since Sweden was not at war, we did not take prisoners of war, we got enemy combatants that we had to intern. Or perhaps "foreign combatants" is a more valid term.
ORIGINAL: Dino
ORIGINAL: mjk428
Who are you to say what's fine re: someone's own conscience? Try to understand that in the latter case they may have been looked on as animals because of their behavior - not because of propaganda or racial prejudice.
A certain amount of hatred in wartime is inevitable...But, one CAN and SHOULD watch himself.
I think your father understood...
...I find myself hating these damn Jerries more and more. If I don't watch myself, I'll be asking to go back up there again.
ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?
Executive Order No. 9066
The President
Executive Order
Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas
Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);
Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.
I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.
I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.
This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
The White House,
February 19, 1942.
What do you call the place where you put interned enemy combatants that have entered your territory? In Sweden we had lots of allied airmen for example, who decided it was better to crash-land in Sweden,
We put these airmen in camps, we called these camps "internment camps". What do you call them?
What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?