Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

Here is my opinion Suva should be the retreat no more base.

I think you guys need to be as bold as you were in defense of DEI region. Especially your naval engagements.

As you know your next carriers are at least 9 to 10 months out. However without using what you have now they are just pretty suntanning decks.

This my opinion only. I would attack I would sprint my SF to engage the landing force, my CV tf I would attemp a strike on the LYB carriers only a couple of bombs will ruin their operation. They are tired now and under strength. I would do this knowing I would most likely get hurt but there is that chance to break them. Offense is a ways away I could wait for the fast CV

That is what I would do.

Yes that is essentially PLAN TANGO or PLAN SALSA except I would put the CAP over the carriers and let the cruisers eat some bombs if they have too when the sun comes up. I could probably scare up a few P-40E's from Samoa for a token CAP over the cruisers.

Plan salsa will hurt I am sure but the rewards are the highest in my opinion. I think I would keep the uk in the cv group they can take lots of damage

Plan A with 3 cv

Plan Tango.

'The more you use, the less you lose', as Uncle Bill Slim was fond of saying.

ps...anyone have any idea what the amphib unload rate for motorised support landing from xAK's is?

ORIGINAL: sprior

The big fly in the SAG ointment is/are the Bettys (Betties?) flying Naval Attack. How do we provide CAP over them? Contrariwise I say bring on the salsa. And can I have tortilla chips too please?

The Betty (torp) range is 17. They'll be unescorted >14. What is the range to Suva from Noumea? You shouldn't have to retreat too much to the East to be out of their range, IIRC.

Have the carriers LRCAP the SAG from the East. SAG ingresses during the night and shoots the **** out of JJ. Egress at first light under LRCAP from carriers. Once away from that Betty ointment fly, run like hell.

Have your carriers stand off a calculated movement distance East of Suva to allow LRCAP coverage after full SAG move. Neither they nor the CAs will be in grave danger of a retaliatory strike. Or...if there is a retaliatory strike on the SAG, hopefully the LRCAP will defang it sufficiently to allow the SAG survival.

It's worth a shot.

They might make it in and out the otherside before betty. What is the betty torp range 14?

ps...anyone have any idea what the amphib unload rate for motorised support landing from xAK's is?

Very slow.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

Here is my opinion Suva should be the retreat no more base.

I think you guys need to be as bold as you were in defense of DEI region. Especially your naval engagements.

As you know your next carriers are at least 9 to 10 months out. However without using what you have now they are just pretty suntanning decks.

This my opinion only. I would attack I would sprint my SF to engage the landing force, my CV tf I would attemp a strike on the LYB carriers only a couple of bombs will ruin their operation. They are tired now and under strength. I would do this knowing I would most likely get hurt but there is that chance to break them. Offense is a ways away I could wait for the fast CV

That is what I would do.

Yes that is essentially PLAN TANGO or PLAN SALSA except I would put the CAP over the carriers and let the cruisers eat some bombs if they have too when the sun comes up. I could probably scare up a few P-40E's from Samoa for a token CAP over the cruisers.

Those token fighters can disrupt attacks sometimes I would keep them over the carriers. SF has a way of sneaking past

Doh

Double post

ORIGINAL: sprior

ps...anyone have any idea what the amphib unload rate for motorised support landing from xAK's is?

Very slow.

Interesting. I wonder how much use the 'Guards Tank Division' is without its organic meals-on-wheels service?

It will take a long time to recover from its disruption, which I'm guessing is quite considerable.

ORIGINAL: Sauvequipeut

ORIGINAL: sprior

ps...anyone have any idea what the amphib unload rate for motorised support landing from xAK's is?

Very slow.

Interesting. I wonder how much use the 'Guards Tank Division' is without its organic meals-on-wheels service?

What makes you think that their meals are organic? I bet you much of their seaweed is cultured rather than wild caught. You think those fish heads they're eating are organically produced, dude? Just too much paperwork overhead to go organic or vegan for combatant meal services of the time.

TIMHO, the key elements at work here are:

1. The date is June, hence the landing is outside of the Japanese amphibious landing bonus
2. The TF listed on post #2809 is has no APs or xAPs. If the invading troops are being transported solely on AKs, then their unload rate is going to be quite slow.
3. The fact that the LYB have brought their own support troops to Nadi strongly suggests that there will be no landing at Suva, instead an overland march from Nadi supported by enemy air based at Nadi is the enemy plan.
4. IIRC, Noumea and Luganville are both well outside of Zero range. Hence only KB fighters will be available to both escort bombers and provide CAP.
5. It is not neccesary to damage the enemy carriers off Fiji, destroy the LYB land force and sea lift capacity and the LYBs will have their offensive capabilities in the Pacific crippled.

Accordingly I would

(a) immediately march from Suva to Nadi every available infantryman and tanker - they should get there before the enemy fully disembarks/unloads supply. Only leave at Suva aviation support and engineers to service aircraft and fill in holes in the Suva runways
(b) throw everything against the enemy troop ships at Nadi (that includes PT only TFs) and disregard the enemy carriers. Send in multiple SAGs to hit the landing, have your CVs operating their fighters at 100% combined CAP (for CV cover) and LRCAP (for SAG cover)
(c) position your CVs 1 hex south east of Nadi with fighter range limited to 1 hex

Alfred

Unless they planned far ahead with that armor divison they are going to be hurting. With less than 60pp they will lose many many motorized support.

I concur with Alfred's advice. A couple of additional notes:

• There is a distance issue if your carriers are just at Wellington. While obviously not exposing them to LBA attack, do not try to sneak up on Nadi. It will probably help if search finds you and they know you are coming. If they do panic and stop landing that will help your cause.
• Even those PT boats can interrupt unloading and buy you time.
• If they see everything moved to Nadi, they could stop unloading and move to Suva. So, make sure your fleet is there to forestall any such move.
• Even ineffective air attacks can slow unloading.
• If they get ashore but the ships bug out before unloading supply, that might be the best scenario!
• Can you reload warships at Suva? If so, make it their home port so they don't go screaming across the Pacific in the wrong direction.

The only problem with moving CV to that location is putting them in LBA and CBA attacks. If they get hurt they most likely will not survive long.

Unless I am wrong about betty range. If I am not you may find attack from both in coordination. I don't think they will survive such a strike

The good thing with alfreds points is the SF is almost assured to strike a blow. But I see the carriers going down. Which getting out undamaged is less than likely regardless

ORIGINAL: Alfred
(c) position your CVs 1 hex south east of Nadi with fighter range limited to 1 hex

Disagree strongly, Alfred. This would put his CVs within striking range of IJN carrier aircraft, SCTF interdiction and possibly Netty activity out of Noumea (depending on retreat pathway). Bad idea for placement, particularly with their weakened air complement.

Everyone seems to be channeling Halsey [:)]

Suva has no AE's or AD's. In fact, her complement of ships include only two PT boats. AE Pyro was sunk. I evacuated the AD that was there. There is fuel.

All of the armor, all of the field artillery and two full US Army regiments are already on their way to Nadi along with the formidable 3rd Marine Defence Bn. I could probably spare another regiment but I wouldnt put it past the LYB's to do a second landing (which happened at New Scotland and eventually led to the loss of the island). I certainly agree that Nadi is the primary landing site as evidenced by the support troops there.

Regarding the idea letting the Japs see the approaching carriers...that seems like a good suggestion. The will be able to deduce that Wasp can't be in theater yet but I dont think they will have good intel on Yorktown, so they might be expecting 3 USN carriers plus a simultaneous threat of land based air from Fiji. It would require some serious self confidence to stand and fight.

Very interesting situation. These are the times when this game is the greatest computer wargame ever devised. [:)]

Another interesting thing...the Japs are using carrier Zeroes to sweep over Fiji in large numbers and most if not all their Vals are attacking the airfields. It would nice to engage them while they were diverting these resources from CAP and naval attack.

I agree these are the turns that make it all worth it. this is the greatest wargame ever.

Whatever you two decide we will all be rooting for you in paradise pago pago in the rear with the gear fruity drinks and girls.