What's your Strategy?
https://forums.matrixgames.com:443/
ORIGINAL: obvert
... until I realized less than 20 strike planes were with each of the first few packages that had plenty of firepower to break through. This kind of difficulty in coordinating from 3-5 hexes out with something like 8 air HQs in range and the escorts fully coordinated makes no sense. Having go the better of the two days I can't complain, but it's silly to have several hundred fighters leading 15 DB while later strikes all come in solo, even though they originated in the same base.
Conventional wisdom about coordination just doesn't work in the beta, especially in massive battles like this late in game.
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
ORIGINAL: obvert
... until I realized less than 20 strike planes were with each of the first few packages that had plenty of firepower to break through. This kind of difficulty in coordinating from 3-5 hexes out with something like 8 air HQs in range and the escorts fully coordinated makes no sense. Having go the better of the two days I can't complain, but it's silly to have several hundred fighters leading 15 DB while later strikes all come in solo, even though they originated in the same base.
Conventional wisdom about coordination just doesn't work in the beta, especially in massive battles like this late in game.
This is a very common error on the forums. The replays are always interpreted as different missions separated by time and space, as well as any influence of CAP position and numbers is dismissed as unimportant. Failure to arrive in a big block is always a coordination error no matter what.
The different replays do
- not neccessarily reflect separate missions
- not neccessarily reflect separate formations
- are influenced by number of planes total
- are influenced by number of CAP and detection of individual strike elements
- in addition is often influenced by fatigue and morale values (which already might vary radically depending on the squadrons involved the previous turn)
In your specific case the replay most probably shows the majority of escorts moving in first and mixing up with CAP, with many of the CAP fighters not even in visual range of the bombers, and some other elements of your bomber formations getting through untouched and unseen, or engaged without protection as the fighters were already commited to battle.
Actually it is a very plausable replay (which must have been FUN to watch...)
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Part of the coordination issue might be the cruise speeds ... Nettie cruise is really slow
ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Don't try and land near the HI without bombing the crap out of all airfields in range first.
Good stuff BTW [:)]
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
ORIGINAL: obvert
... until I realized less than 20 strike planes were with each of the first few packages that had plenty of firepower to break through. This kind of difficulty in coordinating from 3-5 hexes out with something like 8 air HQs in range and the escorts fully coordinated makes no sense. Having go the better of the two days I can't complain, but it's silly to have several hundred fighters leading 15 DB while later strikes all come in solo, even though they originated in the same base.
Conventional wisdom about coordination just doesn't work in the beta, especially in massive battles like this late in game.
This is a very common error on the forums. The replays are always interpreted as different missions separated by time and space, as well as any influence of CAP position and numbers is dismissed as unimportant. Failure to arrive in a big block is always a coordination error no matter what.
The different replays do
- not neccessarily reflect separate missions
- not neccessarily reflect separate formations
- are influenced by number of planes total
- are influenced by number of CAP and detection of individual strike elements
- in addition is often influenced by fatigue and morale values (which already might vary radically depending on the squadrons involved the previous turn)
In your specific case the replay most probably shows the majority of escorts moving in first and mixing up with CAP, with many of the CAP fighters not even in visual range of the bombers, and some other elements of your bomber formations getting through untouched and unseen, or engaged without protection as the fighters were already commited to battle.
Actually it is a very plausable replay (which must have been FUN to watch...)
I get this part, but I'd have to say in this instance this explanation is not likely. Most of the other bombers simply didn't attack this TF where the fighters escorted small numbers of strike planes. I may be able to piece it together later, but most of the bombers from these bases struck other targets entirely instead of following on as you say into the same stream of strikes at this one target.
The strikes that hit ships ALL went to different targets, sometimes 5-8 hexes from these CVEs that most of the escorts flew into.
The escort penalty also doesn't make a lot of sense here if the 200 escorts are guiding in 15 bombers. Yet they suffer terribly in spite of being some of the best pilots on the map for the Japanese forces.
The Japanese surely wouldn't have been able to do something like this, wouldn't have this many good planes and pilots, etc, so I get that this is some kind of abstraction that actually works for the game I'm in, but the Allies have suffered the same fate multiple times. Is it really likely that 600 Hellcats would escort 25 Helldivers with nothing following as we saw just a few turns back? [;)]
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
This is a very common error on the forums. The replays are always interpreted as different missions separated by time and space, as well as any influence of CAP position and numbers is dismissed as unimportant. Failure to arrive in a big block is always a coordination error no matter what.
The different replays do
- not neccessarily reflect separate missions
- not neccessarily reflect separate formations
- are influenced by number of planes total
- are influenced by number of CAP and detection of individual strike elements
- in addition is often influenced by fatigue and morale values (which already might vary radically depending on the squadrons involved the previous turn)
In your specific case the replay most probably shows the majority of escorts moving in first and mixing up with CAP, with many of the CAP fighters not even in visual range of the bombers, and some other elements of your bomber formations getting through untouched and unseen, or engaged without protection as the fighters were already commited to battle.
Actually it is a very plausable replay (which must have been FUN to watch...)
I get this part, but I'd have to say in this instance this explanation is not likely. Most of the other bombers simply didn't attack this TF where the fighters escorted small numbers of strike planes. I may be able to piece it together later, but most of the bombers from these bases struck other targets entirely instead of following on as you say into the same stream of strikes at this one target.
The strikes that hit ships ALL went to different targets, sometimes 5-8 hexes from these CVEs that most of the escorts flew into.
The escort penalty also doesn't make a lot of sense here if the 200 escorts are guiding in 15 bombers. Yet they suffer terribly in spite of being some of the best pilots on the map for the Japanese forces.
The Japanese surely wouldn't have been able to do something like this, wouldn't have this many good planes and pilots, etc, so I get that this is some kind of abstraction that actually works for the game I'm in, but the Allies have suffered the same fate multiple times. Is it really likely that 600 Hellcats would escort 25 Helldivers with nothing following as we saw just a few turns back? [;)]
Agree, dificult to piece it together without watchin the replays. Also you are correct that the different loacation of the targets makes the explanation offered improbable.
Still, I would not jump conclusions on your strike/escort distribution being implausable.
I understand the escorts went were most of the CAP was concentrated, and the other targets were attacked nearly unmolested while also lacking CAP. Only where the CAP concentration was highest, the few bombers - decidcing to strike at the most dangerous and well protected targets - did not get through. Is this more or less correct? I would regard that as expected/desireable behaviour within the games´ limitations.
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Very nice day 2, even with the lack of coordination in your LBA. Is there any room for more micromanagement there? Can you set your strikes in layers, with corresponding escorts? That might help give escorts to each strike package, but it also may mean you end up with 1/5 of your forces flying into a CAP wall, 5 times in a row... I think I prefer what you had happen, and I like LoBaron's interpretation.