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RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:50 am
by koniu
Keep all big BB, CA in hex with invasion TFs and CV FT. With order to reaction set to O and from DDs and CL create defense ring 1 hex from main invasion body with reaction 1.
That way You will have all ships under CAP umbrella. CL/DD will have job to buy time when enemy SAGs arrive rising DL on enemy TF and if they manage to get trough fist line big boys will finish what will left from enemy ships.
With all those subs protecting You from north is highly probable that enemy will use lot of op points fighting ASW and heu not arrive to You at time.
In my opinion biggest risk of naval interception is during night time and from East direction.
If he intercept You at day he will use all op to naval combat and almost for sure on AM phase he will be still in CV bomber range. As i say earlier surface interception attempt need to end bloodbath for Japanese navy. Question is only how much allied ships and troops he will take with him to Davy Jones's Locker. Or i ask differently how big loses are acceptable by You?
EDIT. To late. I am at work and writing that masage took me 1h[:(]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:50 am
by Speedysteve
Best of luck! Should be a fun watch.
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:29 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: castor troy
why using 10 divisions on a target that 2 or 3 divs could take easily? If recon tells you there are 30,000 men on that island there will be 15,000-20,000 at best and then if there are support units then that might not even be an IJA div. In the end you might only go in vs roughly 200-250 enemy av.
Hi CT. [:)]
Good question with a couple of answers:
- I hadn´t reconed Oki for almost a month since I didn´t want to draw any attention there. So for all I knew he could have put a couple of IDs there during the the last month.
- I was expecting 50% losses before I could unload. There is still danger of that.
- The troops were prepped so I might as well bring them with me as have them sit and do nothing on Luzon.
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:34 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: koniu
Keep all big BB, CA in hex with invasion TFs and CV FT. With order to reaction set to O and from DDs and CL create defense ring 1 hex from main invasion body with reaction 1.
That way You will have all ships under CAP umbrella. CL/DD will have job to buy time when enemy SAGs arrive rising DL on enemy TF and if they manage to get trough fist line big boys will finish what will left from enemy ships.
With all those subs protecting You from north is highly probable that enemy will use lot of op points fighting ASW and heu not arrive to You at time.
In my opinion biggest risk of naval interception is during night time and from East direction.
If he intercept You at day he will use all op to naval combat and almost for sure on AM phase he will be still in CV bomber range. As i say earlier surface interception attempt need to end bloodbath for Japanese navy. Question is only how much allied ships and troops he will take with him to Davy Jones's Locker. Or i ask differently how big loses are acceptable by You?
EDIT. To late. I am at work and writing that masage took me 1h[:(]
Not too late! I havn´t sent the turn yet. I´m going to hold on to it until I know when Erik has time to run the turn. [:)]
Thats a good idea. But if I put the CVs in the Naha hex won´t that mean a 50% penalty for the CVs since they will be in a base hex?
I have counted on about 50% losses on the amphibs and troops. So that would be acceptable. But it would still suck! [:D]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:35 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Speedy
Best of luck! Should be a fun watch.
Thanks Speedy. I hope it will fun. And I pray to the gaming gods it will be fun in a fun way where the heroes are victorious with almost no losses and not one where we have to rise from the ashes! [:D]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:09 am
by koniu
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
ORIGINAL: koniu
Keep all big BB, CA in hex with invasion TFs and CV FT. With order to reaction set to O and from DDs and CL create defense ring 1 hex from main invasion body with reaction 1.
That way You will have all ships under CAP umbrella. CL/DD will have job to buy time when enemy SAGs arrive rising DL on enemy TF and if they manage to get trough fist line big boys will finish what will left from enemy ships.
With all those subs protecting You from north is highly probable that enemy will use lot of op points fighting ASW and heu not arrive to You at time.
In my opinion biggest risk of naval interception is during night time and from East direction.
If he intercept You at day he will use all op to naval combat and almost for sure on AM phase he will be still in CV bomber range. As i say earlier surface interception attempt need to end bloodbath for Japanese navy. Question is only how much allied ships and troops he will take with him to Davy Jones's Locker. Or i ask differently how big loses are acceptable by You?
EDIT. To late. I am at work and writing that masage took me 1h[:(]
Not too late! I havn´t sent the turn yet. I´m going to hold on to it until I know when Erik has time to run the turn. [:)]
Thats a good idea. But if I put the CVs in the Naha hex won´t that mean a 50% penalty for the CVs since they will be in a base hex?
I have counted on about 50% losses on the amphibs and troops. So that would be acceptable. But it would still suck! [:D]
Only CVE to Naha, CV 1 hex south. CA, BB protecting directly invasion and CV TF while CLs and DD creating defensive ring.
I will focus with ring on hexes between 12h to 6h. It is rather impassible that strike will go from SE. Still it is Your decision.
Note tht i will set some CV group on CAP range 2 to cover all area
I have use one of Your pictures
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:27 am
by JocMeister
Thats a very good idea koniu. I´ll look into it! I think having a "ring" of Fletchers along the black line could be a very good idea!
I agree an attack from the SW is very improbable. I have good air coverage from Luzon and would have seen anything around Formosa by now!
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:42 am
by Encircled
You've got Fletchers available to cover every eventuality.
I'd cover 360 degrees, with lots of SCTF's on reaction 1.
I'd be very tempted to put a CAP trap on a SCTF near Formosa as well (covered from Luzon).
Obvert can't afford to ignore this. He has to smash the invasion to maintain his hopes of lasting till '46
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:58 am
by JocMeister
Turn is off to Erik now. Can´t do any more. I´m so bloody nervous I´m about to throw up.
I tweaked it a bit per konius advice. I did two things differently though. I kept the CVEs with the CVs and did not send them into Naha. IF Erik is coming with the battle line I don´t want my CVEs in the same hex. We saw in Speedys game just how that can end...
I also left the Iowas with the CV fleet. I can´t leave the CVs completely without surface cover and the Iowas are the most likely bomb magnets short of the CV/CVEs themselves.
Alea iacta est.
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:19 am
by JocMeister
Todays listening while waiting for the replay/CR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAhVbayGv4
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:35 am
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]
China[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________
While the last few days of course have been dominated by the Okinawa campaign I have been busy elsewhere.
The roadblock at Nanning have really taken a pounding by bombardments lately. Sometime more sometimes less. As I speculated in another post this is likely due to supply. This seems enhanced by wildly swinging VP ratios probably caused by bases going in and out of supply.
Anyway, I ordered the first deliberate attack here tomorrow. I´m not expecting much. Equal losses would make me happy. The real reason for the attack is that I messed up earlier. I wasn´t supposed to send everything forward. The intention was to keep a Corp in reserve to land behind the stack. Now the Airborne division tasked to take the base at the coast have arrived together with the shipping. But the troops are "stuck" at the roadblock. Basically I need a reason to pull them out. An attack at the roadblock causing allied casualties will cover for the withdrawal.
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:16 am
by paullus99
Good luck Joc - he's in real trouble now.....time for a big raid on Shanghai while he's sweeping mines?
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:41 am
by JocMeister
Home alone with Ida so just a quick update after watching the replay (while throwing raisins on the floor to keep her occupied)!
We are ashore! I have only seen the replay. Losses that I know of: 2 LCIs and something hit a mine and sank! [&o]
5000 is ashore against a Mixed BDE, a SNLF and a completely wrecked division flown out from Luzon (108th). Will be very interesting to hear how Erik reasoned with this. I can´t explain it!
We will secure our first base on Okinawa tomorrow! [&o][&o][&o]
Full update tonight!!! [:)]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:57 am
by Speedysteve
All good so far on the invasion. Well done [:)]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:08 am
by Crackaces
ORIGINAL: castor troy
why using 10 divisions on a target that 2 or 3 divs could take easily? If recon tells you there are 30,000 men on that island there will be 15,000-20,000 at best and then if there are support units then that might not even be an IJA div. In the end you might only go in vs roughly 200-250 enemy av.
The commitment of all these forces is going to keep them busy for awhile .. Oki starts port 3/3 ..
not sure its state now? But the port will have to be built up to move any quantity of forces to the next point ..
Unless the plan is to simply strat bomb from Oki?
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:24 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Speedy
All good so far on the invasion. Well done [:)]
Good point. I´m not out of the woods yet! [:D]
ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The commitment of all these forces is going to keep them busy for awhile .. Oki starts port 3/3 ..
not sure its state now? But the port will have to be built up to move any quantity of forces to the next point ..
Unless the plan is to simply strat bomb from Oki?
The port he actually built up to 5. And with 2 Amphib BDEs there (400 Navsupport) its no problem. [:)] Besides I need to secure the other bases and build up all the AFs. Only Naha is built up to 7. The rest of them are between 0 and 3. So it will be a good staging point if I decide to move on. Invading the HI would be way cool. [:)]
I´m not sure a daylight strat bombing campaign is doable...yet. I lack fighters and he doesn´t. But as soon as the AFs are built up I can base B24 to help the B29 in the night time campaign. Had to stand the B29s down due to losses. They will need another 30-50 days to recover. Spreading the losses among the B24 would be a great help.
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:24 am
by Encircled
I can't believe he hasn't reacted with the IJN
Whats he saving it for? Bombarding the Russians?
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:26 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Encircled
I can't believe he hasn't reacted with the IJN
Whats he saving it for? Bombarding the Russians?
I have no clue actually. It might be he doesn´t want to risk the mines dropped at Shanghai? Or he wants a better shot with the LBA from better bases. Either way I doubt he will base his navy within B29 range again. [:)]
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:42 am
by witpqs
If recon tells you there are 30,000 men on that island there will be 15,000-20,000 at best...
I've never noticed that - where did you get that idea?
RE: Battle for Okinawa!
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:56 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
If recon tells you there are 30,000 men on that island there will be 15,000-20,000 at best...
I've never noticed that - where did you get that idea?
from playing? pure playing experience [;)], it's always less than recon tells you. Then you count the number of units (which recon usually is excellent at) and you get an estimation.
Example: recon says 50,000 troops at at base, 8 units. Ok, I'd guess roughly 30,000 troops really there, 1 division, couple of AA units (depending on how my air attacks look like), a HQ perhaps, some base forces and constr. units. So that would then come down to 400-500 av at best (depending on which IJ div is there as they range from 300-400+ av). Ok, I'll need three US Inf divs plus armor and support and the base will easily fall. Rinse and repeat.
Of course you can always use
smart bombs and identify each and every unit at the target by sending in a couple of hundred bombers on ground attack. The way the game works noone should ever be surprised what the enemy really has at a target when it comes down to combat capable LCU because they would all show up during air attacks.