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RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:32 pm
by John 3rd
April 7, 1944
One would THINK a pair of WWI-Era DDs would get crushed in a surface action these days; however, that is not the case when two old Japanese veteran's enter the waters of Legaspi on April 7th. They find HUGE game in the form of BB North Carolina, a CA, and 8 DDs. Striking hard and fast they hit three American DDs close to 5,000 yards and then hightail it out of there. No DAMAGE!
As they run back towards Jolo for fuel and ammo, they hold off two American air attacks. A feeble CAP of 6 Fighters provides cover against strikes by 23 Fighters--16 Avengers and 6 Fighters--6 Avengers. Surprisingly their luck holds as CAP splashes 9 planes and AA gets a pair. Once again NO DAMAGE. Come on home Senior Citizens of the Japanese Fleet.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:36 pm
by John 3rd
Well...damn...if I didn't know what to look for I would have missed this.
OK.
We are now in the Kamikaze business.
Any advice, lessons learned, and/or what to do/not to is very appreciated.
Train to 50+ in Low Nav. Changing settings and beginning search of units for initial volunteers...
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:49 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Well...damn...if I didn't know what to look for I would have missed this.
OK.
We are now in the Kamikaze business.
Any advice, lessons learned, and/or what to do/not to is very appreciated.
Train to 50+ in Low Nav. Changing settings and beginning search of units for initial volunteers...
Thanks for being our JFB Guinea Pig, John. Many following this AAR (myself included alas) haven't gotten this far before either.
HOWEVER, I've been told that something that can move fast (evade CAP as much as possible) that carries an 800kg bomb is ideal. Failing that, something that moves fast that can carry 2+ 250kg bombs is pretty good too. What are your antiquated IJAAF pools looking like?
In particular, I'd look at old models of Helens, Sallys, Oscar IIa+ (when they get the 2x250kg payload), Lillys, etc. as some of my first airframes. I'd probably buy out one of the training groups in China for use in the PI. The Oscars would be nice from an AF1 behind the enemy lines in a 'quiet' area of the front where he may overlook CAP on his transport TFs.
I've read AARs wherein large Kamikaze attacks simply gut Allied massed CVEs, so I'm not sure about the 'won't damage anything larger than a DD' comment. Even a BB, afire and damaged, is a 'mission kill'-it will have to go back to a major repair port to get rid of sizable system damage.
Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.
Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:53 pm
by Chickenboy
From your screenshot:
I think you need to switch the training regimen to 'bombs' from torpedoes-otherwise the training will default to NavT. Then train them at 1000 feet, not 20,000 feet for LowNav training to be in effect.
There's no benefit to max training at 21 hexes-that may contribute to unit fatigue and airframe aging. I'd drop this to 0 or 1 range.
Are you sure that you want to use 2E Betties instead of superfluous B5N1s or B5N2s in your IJNAF training regimen?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:02 pm
by ny59giants
Kamikazes - Look for airframes with the following characteristics - speed, payload, and/or ceiling. Can they get there before being shot down? If they do hit, its with some serious ordnance. Can they fly above most of Allied fighters before they dive to their death?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:08 pm
by John 3rd
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
From your screenshot:
I think you need to switch the training regimen to 'bombs' from torpedoes-otherwise the training will default to NavT. Then train them at 1000 feet, not 20,000 feet for LowNav training to be in effect.
There's no benefit to max training at 21 hexes-that may contribute to unit fatigue and airframe aging. I'd drop this to 0 or 1 range.
Are you sure that you want to use 2E Betties instead of superfluous B5N1s or B5N2s in your IJNAF training regimen?
That unit was just an example of finding the actual Kamikaze BUTTON. Just went through the Home Islands writing down a list of units for use and changing them to more appropriate selections.
A couple of weeks ago I bumped Jill and Judy production to add to my current surplus numbers...
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:08 pm
by John 3rd
Keep commenting. Am taking notes and will use tonight's turn for a serious planning turn going through airframes, training, and locations.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:14 pm
by John 3rd
My initial plan is to create 5-6 units to use as 'decoys' to saturate Dan's CAP and see if we can get any REAL attack aircraft. Better to get organized and strike with MASS then go in piecemeal.
Just checked the reinforcements due in Luzon over the next 3-4 days: 19th ID, 48 ID, and two Brigades.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:31 pm
by adarbrauner
The reinforcements to Luzon are not enough, to say the least, if you wont to fight for it. If he has 4-5 divisions, you need the same number at least. Actually you needed them yesterday.
The idea is not not attack (well in anycase we don't have the force nor shall we have before a week. start move troops fast boy!), but rather to place a stop and a big menace to his contingent.
I fully agree with CRSutton about the immense menace of enemy's potential perspective big airbases.
For this reason I don't agree with chicken boy about the 2nd-3rd importance of the smaller Phillipines Islands, exactly the opposite, they have the same importance of Luzon.
We are out of time a little, because I,understand that there are much unsufficient forces in Philippiones now and in the very short next future (days). a pity, because the absence of Mian American Carrier Fleet cannt be exploited in this sense. Never mind, the islands are so close one to each others, that if we manage to bring close troops in land bases, they could be landed in an overnight .
Barges, many many barges needed. also AKLs. But Commander, you should have already a good number of LST, don't you?
Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.
Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.
Depends: if Main Carrier Fleet is absent, so yes, very soon, combining surface attacks as well (P.S.: PTs, where?)
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:19 pm
by MakeeLearn
What aerial recon tactics are you conducting?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:26 pm
by John 3rd
What do you mean?
I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:28 pm
by John 3rd
ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
The reinforcements to Luzon are not enough, to say the least, if you wont to fight for it. If he has 4-5 divisions, you need the same number at least. Actually you needed them yesterday.
The idea is not not attack (well in anycase we don't have the force nor shall we have before a week. start move troops fast boy!), but rather to place a stop and a big menace to his contingent.
I fully agree with CRSutton about the immense menace of enemy's potential perspective big airbases.
For this reason I don't agree with chicken boy about the 2nd-3rd importance of the smaller Phillipines Islands, exactly the opposite, they have the same importance of Luzon.
We are out of time a little, because I,understand that there are much unsufficient forces in Philippiones now and in the very short next future (days). a pity, because the absence of Mian American Carrier Fleet cannt be exploited in this sense. Never mind, the islands are so close one to each others, that if we manage to bring close troops in land bases, they could be landed in an overnight .
Barges, many many barges needed. also AKLs. But Commander, you should have already a good number of LST, don't you?
Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.
Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.
Depends: if Main Carrier Fleet is absent, so yes, very soon, combining surface attacks as well (P.S.: PTs, where?)
His ENTIRE force is present.
My CVs just rendezvoused at Marcus and shall move SW. Am thinking about waiting and watching for an opportunity to strike a portion of his TFs either returning from the Philippines or waiting for escort up to the Philippines. The base where he gathers his shipping is Sorong.
My real opinion is delay and fight in Luzon while putting the kitchen sink into Formosa. As long as I have control there, convoys can still move along the coast going to Japan. Obviously any base in the Okinawa area would need garrisoning. Already have troops in Okinawa building AF and Forts.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:33 pm
by MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
What do you mean?
I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.
Land vs Naval , plane type ,number, targets, intensity... etc. How does recon figure into your overall strategy?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:34 pm
by John 3rd
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Well...damn...if I didn't know what to look for I would have missed this.
OK.
We are now in the Kamikaze business.
Any advice, lessons learned, and/or what to do/not to is very appreciated.
Train to 50+ in Low Nav. Changing settings and beginning search of units for initial volunteers...
Thanks for being our JFB Guinea Pig, John. Many following this AAR (myself included alas) haven't gotten this far before either.
HOWEVER, I've been told that something that can move fast (evade CAP as much as possible) that carries an 800kg bomb is ideal. Failing that, something that moves fast that can carry 2+ 250kg bombs is pretty good too. What are your antiquated IJAAF pools looking like?
In particular, I'd look at old models of Helens, Sallys, Oscar IIa+ (when they get the 2x250kg payload), Lillys, etc. as some of my first airframes. I'd probably buy out one of the training groups in China for use in the PI. The Oscars would be nice from an AF1 behind the enemy lines in a 'quiet' area of the front where he may overlook CAP on his transport TFs.
I've read AARs wherein large Kamikaze attacks simply gut Allied massed CVEs, so I'm not sure about the 'won't damage anything larger than a DD' comment. Even a BB, afire and damaged, is a 'mission kill'-it will have to go back to a major repair port to get rid of sizable system damage.
Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.
Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.
Readers: This is going to be a Kamikaze Training Class. I have seen success in getting through the massed CAP by coming in at 1,000 Ft. It seems to be to do some real damage/hopes for REAL damage one needs to come in damned low and damned high.
Scenario: Five Kamikaze Groups attack with conventional air. Use four of the five at 2-3,000 Ft and one at 30,000 Ft while the real strike aircraft come in at 11,000 Ft. What would you set your fighters at?
What works here and what does not?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:36 pm
by John 3rd
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
What do you mean?
I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.
Land vs Naval , plane type ,number, targets, intensity... etc. How does recon figure into your overall strategy?
Considering aircraft losses, I keep about 30-40 planes (mainly Emily/Judy-R) doing air search in the area blanketing the whole of the Philippines. Use the Dinah for more air search as well as direct base recon from high altitude.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:51 pm
by pws1225
I respectfully disagree. If you lose Luzon, your LOC between the DEI and the HI are effectively cut. CR's air and naval forces will see to that. You simply must defeat his attempt to take the island. There is no other choice or you lose the war.
P.S.: I would offer advice on tactics, but as a reader of both AARs, I must refrain. I simply state the obvious on the importance of holding Luzon.
BTW, great AAR. I haven't had this much fun following the forums since Little Ship That Could was my morning dose.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:36 am
by John 3rd
Comparing our AARs to Little Ship That Could is high praised and I am honored Sir. Thank you for that thought. I loved that AAR as well.
PLEASE convey the same thought to Dan.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:22 am
by adarbrauner
I may agree 100% with what pws1225 wrote (regarding Luzon and Philippines). Allied Philippines = B 29 over Home Islands (+ conventional nuclearization of Formosa) + no more free shipping to DEI.
So why?
RE: April 1944
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:18 pm
by John 3rd
April 8, 1944
The foxes got into the Hen House. Not an impressive haul but CA Mikuma and 4 DDs manage to sink all three TFs of LCT for total of 20. Third raid to hit pay dirt with NO LOSS.
Watching the peaceful transfer of power this day so nothing more until I get home tonight.
RE: April 1944
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:15 pm
by adarbrauner
This is the kind of operations we need, reiterated. slow progressive clever attrition. Also of his logistic arm.
What about your SuW an ASW? it has been a while we hadn't had an update.