Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT
Yes, Yes , please do if it wouldn't be too much trouble. Many of us have their own personel mods that may or may not be as detailed as CHS but have many more ships than the Standard set. Even just posting any additional ships you may have at the same scale and style would be greatly appreciated. I think your combined work is excellent and I am greatful for all your hard work and efforts.

Regards

I can do that, but the sides and shils will be numbered according to what the CHS database calls out. This may not be compatible with your mod. You might have to go to the "blank" panel, find the ships you want, and paste them on appropriate side and shil backgrounds. If you want, I can include a 'background' panel that has 10 different, but suitable and appropriate, backgrounds for your cut-&-pasting pleasure. Let me know.
JWE

Hey Halsey !!

Gotta proposition for ya. I've done an analysis of CHS as to bitmapping and have a nice spreadsheet (also in .doc, .rtf, .htm) of every Allied class, its baseline bitmap, and all its associated upgrade bitmaps. Noticed the same kinds of blivets that you did. For example, the CHS database calls out the following:

Nevada -------- baselines at #0177 and upgrades to 0403, 0404, 0405
Pennsylvania -- baselines at #0178 and upgrades to 0408, 0409
New Mexico --- baselines at #0179 and upgrades to 0458, 0406
Tennessee ----- baselines at #0180 and upgrades to 0411, 0412
Colorado ------ baselines at #0181 and upgrades to 0400, 0401, 0402

This is kinda strange since there are only a couple of visually significant upgrades for each of these treaty BBs (in several cases only one). Best I can figure is set out below, with their PH configuration at left, interim config next, and final config at right.

There is likely a bunch of 'interim'-interim configurations as well, but these involve a repositioning and and intensification of 'black dots' representing an increase in light AA. Notably, this does not represent a visually significant redesign of the vessel and would not involve a departure from the representative annuated profile.

Would you be interested in collaborating on a “redo” of the major Allied warship classes for CHS?? If so, send me a PM with your email, we'll chatter & go from there.

JWE

If it's any use to you:

USS California

USS Nevada

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE

Very nice arts. Where did you get these from Dixie? Any more of these there? Thnx

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE

In my interpretation, I chose the final refit as the main bitmap for capital ships.

Though there are players out there that like the pre-war style.

ORIGINAL: Halsey

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE

In my interpretation, I chose the final refit as the main bitmap for capital ships.

Though there are players out there that like the pre-war style.

I prefer later refits for my ship sides. Most of the pre-war BBs spend a lot of time in the repair yards before seeing action after PH, so there's not really much need for pre-war art after Dec 41.

That's the way I see it too.[;)]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

That's the way I see it too.[;)]

Got your PM; agree completely; I'll send the list along.

I'm not in love with the PH configurations either. Unfortunately, in making a package for the general community, I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing; so, if CHS has a PH BB as the baseline, then (if I'm providing the art) I have to do a PH BB as the baseline.

The bitmap list is just how things are presently called out in CHS. Understood that a change in things will require a mod. I bet Andrew would appreciate it if someone were to clean this up and give him a solid basis for changes.

Anyway, list is coming. JWE

I'm just going to chime in on the ship discussion: I would use the Pearl Harbor era version and the refit version even if I had to switch it out manually, later in the game, myself.

Now for something completely different... CHS Allied planeside anyday.

I second to that Cathartes! I'm just doing exactly that with my own custom-built ships side database. What's more in my own mod I added extra graphics so when a ship upgrades it switches graphics automatically.

Are you planning to release the past 1943 plane sides for the stock game as well ?

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE

I don't see why CHS could not have different ship graphics for classes as they upgrade, if the bitmaps are available in the standard CHS ship set.

Andrew

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

I'm just going to chime in on the ship discussion: I would use the Pearl Harbor era version and the refit version even if I had to switch it out manually, later in the game, myself.

Now for something completely different... CHS Allied planeside anyday.

It may be easier to just add the new refit bitmap to the art file as a AnSide/AnShip 4XX series and point the upgrade slot in the database to the new bitmap number. I've coded alot of new artwork for paintschemes and upgrades for capital ships this way.

TOMLABEL

"point the upgrade slot in the database to the new bitmap number" RHS uses this methodology with many ships and their upgrades.

It's not like it's very difficult to simply assign a new bitmap to a new upgrade. The tricky bit is getting a good shipside...

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I don't see why CHS could not have different ship graphics for classes as they upgrade, if the bitmaps are available in the standard CHS ship set.

Andrew

It already does for many US BBs, CAs, CLs, & DDs. The confusion is how they are organized.

i.e., Nevada starts out at bitmap 177 and upgrades 3 times; the upgrade slots point to bitmaps 403, 404, 405. However, she only had one structurally significant change from her PH config; a major modernization at Bremerton during 1942. The rest is more and more 20s and 40s.

Similar with many of the rest of the BBs, CAs & DDs. Makes it really hard to figure out what goes in all those extra bitmaps. The other thing is that using 4 bitmaps for Nevada, for example, takes up bitmap positions that could be used elsewhere.

That is why I made the suggestion that someone look into "slicking up" the database. All the parts are there, already, just require a bit of reassembly.

JWE

How about giving upgraded ships some other form of distinction (since upgrades themselves are not very "distinguishable").

Maybe some discrete camo...or different hue...or add a flag?

ORIGINAL: Dino

How about giving upgraded ships some other form of distinction (since upgrades themselves are not very "distinguishable").

Maybe some discrete camo...or different hue...or add a flag?

I think the more effective way might be to reorganize the class database, so that ship upgrades only change bitmaps when there is a visible structural change to silhouette.

This has certain advantages: it reduces the number of used bitmaps by eliminating duplication and/or marginal image changes; it allows for better utilization of the number sequences; and, ideally, it frees-up a number group that can be reserved for modding.

If, say, all of the Allied numbers from 0001 to 0100 were unused, then those numbers would be available for mods that use different images of personal preference. For instance, BB Nevada would go thru its 3 upgrades but have only 1 bitmap change; a modder could use a couple of the free numbers to add images of Nevada in various paint schemes to go along with the other 2 upgrades. That way everyone gets something.

The database remains nominal, with PH images, then '42 refit images (if applicable), then '43 refit images (if applicable). Modders can then either substitute their own images and/or make additional images with the knowledge that there will be a certain amount of open space.

JWE

Some detail on the above:

Numbers are rough counts, not dispositive.
From 100, ending at 479; 345 used bitmap numbers; 34 open bitmap numbers; 379 total

127 - baseline bitmaps for warships, CV down thru DD
123 - baseline bitmaps for ‘other’ classes
24 - baseline bitmaps for SS

274 – baseline bitmaps
105 – bitmaps available for structural upgrades.

Several (many) of the baseline classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they are later war additions and do not change appearance; certain upgrades (London rebuild, for example) are already included in the baselines; the vast majority of ‘other’ classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they do not change appearance; there is much repetition in the ‘other’ classes and they require way fewer than 123 baseline positions.

Bottom line, I would guess 250 baseline images and 130 upgrade images. There are 150 warships and subs, of which maybe 100 would need an upgrade image (75 more likely), of those maybe 10-15 would need 2 upgrade images.

There’s your baselines, your 100-130 upgrade images, and the entire bitmap range between 0001 and 0100 open and available for some pretty dense ‘paint job’ and ‘never were’ additions.

Doing this would make standardizing the art set sooo much easier. Thoughts??