Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Well I'm wondering why put extra supply at those bases at all? I was just thinking a very simple approach:

US produces X (xx,xxx) supply per day.

Put in Y number of damaged HI centers spread across Z locations that will eat up Z-thousand supply per day repairing. Make the spread of Y across Z heterogeneous if a staggered ramp up is desired.

I just looked at my spreadsheet of Scenario 28 bases and there are 39 Continental US and another 19 Canadian. Those do not count Alaska. So by working only with HI - which for the Allies will have no effect on anything else (unless Japan captures it & good for them) - so by working only with HI you can cause 58,000 supply to be eaten per day for as long as you want. You can have 58,000 supply eaten the first day, 57,000 the second day, etc. or have 58,000 eaten every day for three years.

From looking at your earlier post I think a reduction of 58,000 per day is more than you want, so you can safely ignore some of the remote Canadian bases that might be hard to get supplies to.

No need to give any base extra supply or worry about extra LI producing extra supply when the whole thing is done repairing.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Vettim,

Yes, I agree with the house rule that the Allied player would have to leave all the industry in US-Can to Repair=On. That is the easiest house rule in the world to live with.

I thought it was earlier mentioned that HI would be adjusted to not produce supply? Maybe I misunderstood that point. Either way, just suggesting options for you to consider.

Buck,

You are right - I forgot they would consume fuel. Maybe there is enough,or a supply could be added.

It's different than supply sinks, though, unless you can make supply sinks go away on certain dates. Can you?

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Vettim,

Yes, I agree with the house rule that the Allied player would have to leave all the industry in US-Can to Repair=On. That is the easiest house rule in the world to live with.

I thought it was earlier mentioned that HI would be adjusted to not produce supply? Maybe I misunderstood that point. Either way, just suggesting options for you to consider.

Buck,

You are right - I forgot they would consume fuel. Maybe there is enough,or a supply could be added.

It's different than supply sinks, though, unless you can make supply sinks go away on certain dates. Can you?

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Vettim,

Yes, I agree with the house rule that the Allied player would have to leave all the industry in US-Can to Repair=On. That is the easiest house rule in the world to live with.

I thought it was earlier mentioned that HI would be adjusted to not produce supply? Maybe I misunderstood that point. Either way, just suggesting options for you to consider.

Buck,

You are right - I forgot they would consume fuel. Maybe there is enough,or a supply could be added.

It's different than supply sinks, though, unless you can make supply sinks go away on certain dates. Can you?

Just a drive-by question, but as you guys worry a lot about CONUS not super-producing, I think you need to be careful to not upset the LI/HI/supply applecart in India at the same time vis a vis auto-victory. If the Allies can't self-fund an Indian defense they're going to get steamrolled by a Japanese player with short SLOCs. Aden is closed, Oz won't have much to spare, and it's a long way from the EC through CT to India. An aggressive auto-vic campaign might be mostly over before any supply gets there if LI is crippled or starts damaged, and HI produces no supply. Right now it's fuel from Abadan to BOmbay that keeps India fighting in the first six months.

I'll go away now. Probably something I don't understand here. [:)]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Took a bit of work...but here goes...using my 'econ' mod...

Going in my goals for US supply production were:

5/42 = 41,300
5/43 = 71,200
5/44+ = 79,000

Currently US receives 65,000 daily supply + 6200 from on map LI = 71,200 which I chose as the 1943 base line.


I reduce daily supply to 50,000 combined with the existing 6200 onmap LI supply production = 56,200

I then give the US a series of LI Centers - 38 total 100% damaged

11 - 180 point centers
10 - 365 point centers
5 - 545 point centers
5 - 725 point centers
7 - 2000 point centers (these will never finish repairing)

So in Dec/41 with 38 LI centers repairng we burn 38,000 supply per turn from our 56,200 leaving a surplus of 18,200/day which slowly grows as LI comes online.

180 turns into the game, roughly May 1942, my 11 - 180 point centers have completed repairing and the other 27 centers have 180 points repaired as well.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 9720 (27LIx180x2) - 27,000 (27 LI still repairing) = 42880 supply/day ....my goal was 41,300 close enough for govt. work

Continuing on another 185 days to Dec 42 another 10 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 12410 (17LIx365x2) - 17,000 (17 LI still repairing) = 62870 supply

Continuing on another 180 days to May 43 another 5 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 5450 (5LIx545x2) + 8760 (12LIx365x2) - 12,000 (12 LI still repairing) = 73990 supply my goal was 71200 ... pretty close.

Continuing on another 180 days to DEC 43 another 5 LI centers have come completely on line and stopped repairing.

So the US supply situation is 6200 (At start repaired LI) + 50000 daily + 3960 (11LIx180x2) + 7300 (10LIx365x2) + 5450 (5LIx545x2) + 7250 (5LIx725x2) + 10150 (7LI x725x2) - 7000 (7 LI still repairing) = 83310 supply points per day....

From here the US supply will continue to grow by 14 points per day till the end of the game as the 7 remaining unrepaired LI centers repair every day.


Needless to say I add an equivalent number of repaired resource centers to feed the LI...which gives the US a substantial Resource surplus early in the game which it can transport to OZ.

Will make updates to the mod tomorrow night...

ORIGINAL: vettim89

The whole picture of these alterations would likely remove an Indian invasion from the table. perhaps a modest move into Bengal or Ceylon might be possible.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: vettim89

The whole picture of these alterations would likely remove an Indian invasion from the table. perhaps a modest move into Bengal or Ceylon might be possible.

OK, excellent points. I have no problem toning down CONUS production, and it should ramp up. I'm floating in supply from about 12/15/41 onward. I have over 11 million supply in VANCOUVER and I don't have anywhere needing it. Also, anything that makes the Japanese rely on merchants moving, where my subs can get at them, I'm in favor of trying.

I think these changes would be great, but I expect lots of howling from JFBs if auto-victory isn't really possible. War versus game. If it's very clear what folks are buying into when they try one of these variations I think a certain sort of player will really enjoy the challenges.

Thanks for the explaination. I'll go back to lurking now.

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Since I'm not good at doing the figures...and there are people that do much better at it.

Anshan, the Showa Steel Works by 1942 was producing 3.6 million tons of Iron bars and Steel, and was said to be outproducing plants on the Japanese home islands. There were over 700 industries built up around it by 1940. The Japanese invested heavily in this area

Just wondering, is this location under-represented in game based on its historical importance? Granted, this would likely have the opposite effect of what we are trying to accomplish by reducing the amount of resources moved, since the HI would be able to take fuel and resource produced in Korea to make supply.

I'm thinking rather an increase in the RC there to represent the processed, but not yet used steel and iron production?

Currently 360 RC producing 7200 RP per day for 2,628,000 RP per year. If I am figuring right, and counting the steel + iron as a raw material to be transported, in 1942 you'd need to increase resources to ~490 to equal an output of 3.6 million/year. That is only if you keep the current RC output of 20 RP/RC.

Perhaps an increase of resource centers here instead of HI or LI since we don't actually transport steel and iron?

Maybe I'm over-thinking this?

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Since I'm not good at doing the figures...and there are people that do much better at it.

Anshan, the Showa Steel Works by 1942 was producing 3.6 million tons of Iron bars and Steel, and was said to be outproducing plants on the Japanese home islands. There were over 700 industries built up around it by 1940. The Japanese invested heavily in this area

Just wondering, is this location under-represented in game based on its historical importance? Granted, this would likely have the opposite effect of what we are trying to accomplish by reducing the amount of resources moved, since the HI would be able to take fuel and resource produced in Korea to make supply.

I'm thinking rather an increase in the RC there to represent the processed, but not yet used steel and iron production?

Currently 360 RC producing 7200 RP per day for 2,628,000 RP per year. If I am figuring right, and counting the steel + iron as a raw material to be transported, in 1942 you'd need to increase resources to ~490 to equal an output of 3.6 million/year. That is only if you keep the current RC output of 20 RP/RC.

Perhaps an increase of resource centers here instead of HI or LI since we don't actually transport steel and iron?

Maybe I'm over-thinking this?

ORIGINAL: JWE

Hi Spidey,

The DBB cargo cap tweak is done. It looks quite sweet, if you ask me, and has all the different tender types dialed in right and tight with sufficient cap to perform their functions.

How do you want it? email, pm, posted here? It's a singular Class file directly off wpc028.dat

Ciao. John

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: vettim89

The whole picture of these alterations would likely remove an Indian invasion from the table. perhaps a modest move into Bengal or Ceylon might be possible.

OK, excellent points. I have no problem toning down CONUS production, and it should ramp up. I'm floating in supply from about 12/15/41 onward. I have over 11 million supply in VANCOUVER and I don't have anywhere needing it. Also, anything that makes the Japanese rely on merchants moving, where my subs can get at them, I'm in favor of trying.

I think these changes would be great, but I expect lots of howling from JFBs if auto-victory isn't really possible. War versus game. If it's very clear what folks are buying into when they try one of these variations I think a certain sort of player will really enjoy the challenges.

Thanks for the explaination. I'll go back to lurking now.

If you are willing to mess with the PWHEX file you can alter the autovictory conditions also. Increase the value of the RL bases that were truly high value to Japan, increase the value of bases that were just out of reach of Japan in RL like Noumea, and decrease some of the Allied padding (ContUS) and an new autovictory arise. That however is a different discussion all together

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



OK, excellent points. I have no problem toning down CONUS production, and it should ramp up. I'm floating in supply from about 12/15/41 onward. I have over 11 million supply in VANCOUVER and I don't have anywhere needing it. Also, anything that makes the Japanese rely on merchants moving, where my subs can get at them, I'm in favor of trying.

I think these changes would be great, but I expect lots of howling from JFBs if auto-victory isn't really possible. War versus game. If it's very clear what folks are buying into when they try one of these variations I think a certain sort of player will really enjoy the challenges.

Thanks for the explaination. I'll go back to lurking now.

If you are willing to mess with the PWHEX file you can alter the autovictory conditions also. Increase the value of the RL bases that were truly high value to Japan, increase the value of bases that were just out of reach of Japan in RL like Noumea, and decrease some of the Allied padding (ContUS) and an new autovictory arise. That however is a different discussion all together

Base victory points is an editor change. Not PWHEX change. It's super easy.