Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: brian brian

It happens to the Germans too...

one converse of how the cv planes work is the countries that build new CVs that are bigger classes than they start with (Blue - CW, Purple - Japan, Green - Germany) could end up with brand new CVs with no planes to put on them...

err, cutting-edge new plane designs that is.

the trick really is to get your CV plane orders in before Jan/Feb when the new ones roll out

ORIGINAL: mlees

Froonp. I get an error clicking on your link. Do you need to be a registered?

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This is a new informational note to let you know that the rule clarification progress has advanced today, as Harry was sent the 247th question (67%) of our 370 questions long list (6th batch).
So far he has answered 256 (69%) (some were answered in the 1996-1999), and 178 are case closed (48%).

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This is a new informational note to let you know that the rule clarification progress has advanced today, as Harry was sent the 247th question (67%) of our 370 questions long list (6th batch).
So far he has answered 256 (69%) (some were answered in the 1996-1999), and 178 are case closed (48%).

Patrice,

Could you please send a copy of the list, with answers, to me?

ORIGINAL: Frederyck

I have a question about the Air to Air combat results when using for example the Twin-Engined Fighter optional rule. This optional states "In air-to-air combat during the day, all front fighters with an orange air-to-air rating achieve one result less than normal when the front enemy fighter in the combat does not have an orange air-to-air rating. In these cases an AX result becomes a DX, a DX becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected. "

This in itself is no problem.

However, consider this example:

A single German Twin-Engined FTR-5 (orange A2A) is escorting an LND on a day mission to London. They are intercepted by a single Commonwealth FTR-5 (black A2A).

In the resulting air combat, the German player rolls a lucky 19. In the "0"-column of the A2A chart this results in an AX, with a Red background. As per the Twin-engined option above, this results becomes a DX. My question is regarding the background colour. Should the Red background colour also "achieve one less result" and thus becoming Orange/Brown?

ORIGINAL: Frederyck
I thought so too, but that means essentially that no red results can occur when applying the twin-engined optional to a result. Ie, there is no chance of killing the pilot in the example above.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Frederyck

I have a question about the Air to Air combat results when using for example the Twin-Engined Fighter optional rule. This optional states "In air-to-air combat during the day, all front fighters with an orange air-to-air rating achieve one result less than normal when the front enemy fighter in the combat does not have an orange air-to-air rating. In these cases an AX result becomes a DX, a DX becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected. "

This in itself is no problem.

However, consider this example:

A single German Twin-Engined FTR-5 (orange A2A) is escorting an LND on a day mission to London. They are intercepted by a single Commonwealth FTR-5 (black A2A).

In the resulting air combat, the German player rolls a lucky 19. In the "0"-column of the A2A chart this results in an AX, with a Red background. As per the Twin-engined option above, this results becomes a DX. My question is regarding the background colour. Should the Red background colour also "achieve one less result" and thus becoming Orange/Brown?

The 19 result is a Red AX, would become an Orange DX.
A 18 result (Red DX) would become an AA.
A 16-17 result (orange DX) would become an AA too.

If it wasn't like that, you'd have on a 16 an Orange DX becoming an Orange AA which can't exist, as in an Abort the Pilot is not destroyed.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Patrice I really don't think that interpretation is widely held. Our group has always played that only the lettered result is downgraded and colors for pilot losses stay the same, they just may become non-applicable when a kill turns into an abort. The RAW is totally silent in both text and example on doing it as you suggest, so why assume this? I would at least like to see this discussed with the rules clarification committee (if not submitted to Harry) to get an indication as to which of us is from planet Pluto.

As a side note, a DA fired by an orange fighter becomes a blank and a blank becomes an AC, many times this can be overlooked or the blank left out of the range of possibilities.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Patrice I really don't think that interpretation is widely held. Our group has always played that only the lettered result is downgraded and colors for pilot losses stay the same, they just may become non-applicable when a kill turns into an abort. The RAW is totally silent in both text and example on doing it as you suggest, so why assume this? I would at least like to see this discussed with the rules clarification committee (if not submitted to Harry) to get an indication as to which of us is from planet Pluto.

As a side note, a DA fired by an orange fighter becomes a blank and a blank becomes an AC, many times this can be overlooked or the blank left out of the range of possibilities.

OK, I would not have thought that it could be played / thought this way, so as you are, I'll add this question to the list, first by passing it to the rules clarifications yahoogroup.

ORIGINAL: wifchart.pdf (If we go by severity it should look like this)

AX - The Attacker (player rolling) destroys the Defenders front fighter or bomber
DX - The Defender (player not rolling) destroys their own front fighter or bomber
AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber
DA - The Defender aborts their own front fighter or bomber
AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat)

Since there would be no possiable Bounce Combat (this being an AC not a DC result) would this be considered an AA when the Attacker is guarding bombers?

DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat)
"-" No effect

ORIGINAL: WiFFe-RAW-7.0.pdf

Option 53: (Twin-engined fighters) In air-to-air combat during the day, all front fighters with an orange air-to-air rating achieve one result less than normal when the front enemy fighter in the combat does not have an orange air-to-air rating. In these cases an AX result becomes a DX, a DX becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected.

ORIGINAL: WiFFe-RAW-7.0.pdf

Option 22: (Bounce Combat) When the result of any air-to-air combat is a “DC”, the Defender may choose to implement it normally (see 14.3.3) or may instead convert the result into a “bounce” combat.

ORIGINAL: WiFFe-RAW-7.0.pdf

14.6.4 Pilot deaths
If an aircraft unit is destroyed, the pilot can die with it. This happens if the aircraft was destroyed:
• in a sea area where that side has neither a naval unit nor a port;
• by an orange air-to-air combat result and the combat was over any sea area or enemy controlled hex;
• by a red air-to-air combat result;
• by anti-aircraft fire (see 11.5.9 & 22.4.2);
• by being overrun on the ground (see 11.11.6);
• by being in its home country when it is conquered (see 13.7.1);
• because it cannot return to base (see 13.4);
• option 32: by carpet bombing (see 11.8);
• option 59: if it is marked with a black death’s head (see 14.7); or
• option 60: while flying a kamikaze mission (see 14.8).

20 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would die.
19 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would die.
18 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
17 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
16 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
15 ~ DA - The Defender aborts their own front fighter or bomber.
14 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
13 ~ No effect.
12 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
11 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
10 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
9 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
8 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
7 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
6 ~ DA - The Defender aborts their own front fighter or bomber.
5 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
4 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.
3 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.
2 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.

Since "Option 53" is only referenced in rule "14.3 Air-to-air combat ~ 14.3.2 Combat" then only the lettered result should be reduced. AX becomes DX, DX becomes AA, AA becomes DA, and DC is unaffected (it isn't a "No effect"). A DC remaining a DC allows for for Option 22 (Bounce Combat) or a bomber being cleared through. It looks to me like it was planned for Option 22 and 53 to be used together.

The color of the result should remain unchanged. This is reflected on wifchart.pdf only AX and DX results have red or orange colors. Pilot death is only possiable when the aircraft was destroyed.

IMO: if a Twin-engined fighter rolled a 19, then the result should be that the Defender would destroy their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would die.

quote:
20 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would die.
19 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would die.
18 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
17 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
16 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
15 ~ DA - The Defender aborts their own front fighter or bomber.
14 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
13 ~ No effect.
12 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
11 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
10 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
9 ~ DC - The Defender clears through any one bomber (possiable Bounce Combat).
8 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
7 ~ AC - The Attacker clears through any one Defender bomber (No possiable Bounce Combat).
6 ~ DA - The Defender aborts their own front fighter or bomber.
5 ~ AA - The Attacker aborts the Defenders front fighter or bomber.
4 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.
3 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.
2 ~ DX - The Defender destroys their own front fighter or bomber and the Pilot would live.