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ORIGINAL: Joe D.

If you think that's bad (and it is), merchants carrying ammo were alone in a crowd; they were avoided by the other ships in the convoy like the plague 'cause if they got hit ...

I was able to go aboard one of the few Liberty ships afloat today; the rationale for these vessels was that we could build 'em faster than the Axis could sink 'em, which must have been little comfort to those who had to sail 'em.

For what it's worth, at least they dedicated a film to the merchant marine, Action in the North Atlantic, w/Humbrey Bogart and Raymond Masey.

For what it's worth.

Tankers were pretty rough too, no-one wanted to be around one of those when it went up.

I grew up with the stories my Dad used to tell about his Merchant days. Mostly it was about the comic stuff, like the time someone smuggled a monkey onboard while they were in Africa, and it escaped and the crew spent two days trying to catch it, or how during a air attack the ships cook got so enraged that he ran out of the cook-house and started throwing potatoes at the german planes.

Everynow again though he would let slip about the darker stuff he had seen. Half burnt survivors from a sunken ship screaming for help in the freezing waters of the Atlantic or seeing men being strafed off the deck of a ship by a enemy plane.

Its a pity that the men of the Merchant Marine remain the "Forgotten Arm" of WW2.

The Albion Star was one of the ships that my Dad sailed on [;)]

ORIGINAL: Mac67
... Everynow again though he would let slip about the darker stuff he had seen. Half burnt survivors from a sunken ship screaming for help in the freezing waters of the Atlantic or seeing men being strafed off the deck of a ship by a enemy plane ...

In all the "virtual" carnage of WitP/UV, I think this aspect of war is easilly forgotten.

Okay - can you please describe the position of 'coffin corner'? Thanks in advance.

Who, me?

I think the "coffin corner" is the starboard rear side of the flotilla, on the outside corner of the row where all the slower boats are positioned, probably equivalent to "tail end charlie" in airspeak.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Okay - can you please describe the position of 'coffin corner'? Thanks in advance.

It was the name given to the two rear outside positions in the convoy formation. Ships travelling in these positions were most vulnerable to attacks by submarines, hence the term "Coffin Corner".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Agreed: I should have said something along the lines of "anti-European colonialism, if there's such a term. I didn't realize how ironic that read -- an Imperial power complaining re imperialism/colonialism -- until you pointed it out.
Thanks.

And I should've said something like - "In most eras colonial powers are all pretty much anti-colonial - except regarding themselves!!".

ORIGINAL: Mac67

Its a pity that the men of the Merchant Marine remain the "Forgotten Arm" of WW2.

I have some familiarity with the "debate" in USA regarding giving more due to the American merchant sailors. But I'm not familiar with the British side of the story. Can you give us a brief summary of the highlights and the lowlights from the other side of the pond?

For a good book re the North Atlantic convoy battles in general and the crucial March 1943 battles around HX229 and SC122 I'll recommend "Convoy" by Middleton. British, American, Allied and German; black shoe and brown shoe perspectives on the whole show. Talks alot more than is usual in such books about who the merchant seamen were and why they went to sea as I recall.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: spence

For a good book re the North Atlantic convoy battles in general and the crucial March 1943 battles around HX229 and SC122 I'll recommend "Convoy" by Middleton. British, American, Allied and German; black shoe and brown shoe perspectives on the whole show. Talks alot more than is usual in such books about who the merchant seamen were and why they went to sea as I recall.

There is also nice old novel "HMS Ulysess" by Alistair MacLean about fictional Artic convoy (I think I read it dozen of times since I was a boy - every few years I re-read it)!

HMS Ulysses


Leo "Apollo11"

Me too. It's probably his best book...

THE classic book of the stiff upper lip

Pity the world does not stand to the same standards today

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

THE classic book of the stiff upper lip

Pity the world does not stand to the same standards today

Does anyone knows if "HMS Ulysses" was ever considered to be movie?

It's pitty that so many good books are never considered for movies (Len Deighton's "Bomber" comes to mind - it's fictional novel about one night Lancaster raid on June 31st 1943 over Germany - please note unexisting date)...


Leo "Apollo11"

June 31st??? Why?[:D]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

June 31st??? Why?[:D]

So that mission (and screwup) can't be connected to any living person and/or historic place (place of bombing is also not existing in real world)...

The "Bomber" by Len Deighton is out of print for so long that I had really hard time to get my hands on it... once I managed to get it I stay awake whole night and read it straightthrough... amazing book (n fact his WWII noves are great as well as his history books although he is "just" amateur historian: "Fighter", Blitzkrieg", "Blood, tears and Folly")... [:)]


Below is link to Amazon for "Bomber":

Bomber


Leo "Apollo11"

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Does anyone knows if "HMS Ulysses" was ever considered to be movie?
It's pitty that so many good books are never considered for movies ...

Couldn't find a movie in the IMDb database, but HMS Ulysses did get first "honorable mention" for the 10 most famous fictional ships at the following link titled "The Most Famous Ships That Never Were":

http://www.boat-links.com/books/Lardas/Lardas05.html

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


Couldn't find a movie in the IMDb database, but "HMS Ulysses" did get first "honorable mention" for the 10 most famous fictional ships (see end of list).

Thanks!

BTW, there is (as always) Wikipedia... [:)] link is below:

HMS Ulysses (novel)


In it it is said "HMS Ulysses has never been filmed. However, it was adapted by Nick McCarty for a BBC Radio 4 play of the same name which was first aired on 14 June 1997 in the Classic Play series. It starred Sir Derek Jacobi as Captain Vallery and Sir Donald Sinden as Admiral Starr."

Ahh... Derek Jacobi of "I Claudius" and "Cadfael" fame...


Leo "Apollo11"

And soon of Doctor Who fame, again reprising the role of the "Master":

"This is Derek Jacobi's third involvement in Doctor Who. The first was in the September 2003 audio drama Deadline, where he played a screenwriter who believes himself to be the Doctor. The second was several months later, in the webcast Scream of the Shalka, where he played an android version of the Master. "

Source: Wikipedia, where else.

Somehow it just seems right for Derek Jacobi to be portraying a character called "The Master"...[:D]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Okay - can you please describe the position of 'coffin corner'? Thanks in advance.

I could be wrong, but I believe this describes the position occupied by the leading ship in each of the two 'wing' columns of the convoy.