Matrix Games Forums

p.s. 1st Motor Bde Gp and 3rd Army Tank Disband in 43

The only question I have left on the whole Aussie ORBAT
 
4th Aus Cav Bde
6th Aus Cav Bde
 
At present these two formations end up as 4th Armoured and 6th Cav Bde in late 42 ealry 43
 
I think 6th Cav Bde should also disband in 43 but am not sure so I have not done so now
 
That would mean by 44 the Aussies would have
 
1st and 2nd Armoured Bde (as regts)
4th Armoured Bde
1st Motor Bde Group and
 
That would mean a reduction from a 1942 strength of 4 Armoured Bdes, 3 Motorised Bdes and 6 Independent Bns to
 
3 Armoured Bdes, 1 Motorised Bde a reduction of over 50% which is probably right as they combed all forces for infantry

p.s. guys if my musings on the various ORBATS are boring everyone silly by now pease tell me to shut up and you can all wait and see what its like on release [:D][:D][:D]

Andy,
 
I love it, but would like to see the whole picture, which is probably impossible.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Any possibility the US Marine Division can respawn like Chinese LCU's?? Occasionally, they are lost early in the war and I would think they would have reconstituted them if it happened. 

No. The Marines stretched to the limit to field 6 divisions. The USMC disbanded all their parachute and ranger battalions, (now accurately reflected in the AE OOB) shut down training units, and rounded up every spare guard, cook and mechanic they could find in order to find enough marines to fill out the 5th and 6th divisions.

The US was infantry-poor the entire war. The early war plan eventually called for 200 divisions; the Army couldn't field 100. The number of service troops needed was much higher than anticipated; the Army created way too many tank destroyer, cavalry, and coastal AA units; the B-29 program sucked away the last manpower reserves.

Unfortunately, the game engine doesn't allow the player to select surplus units to disband in order to add more infantry. A nice project for WITP II. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
From the allied side (and to some extent but less so the Japanese)

1st 6 - 9 months the balance is for more smaller units Bn, Bde and 'special' adhoc units - e.g. BlackForce, Birds, RM Viper force these reflect the lack of staying power and organisation the allies face etc etc

Divisions are around but especially in India and Australia are heavily under strength and the sheer quantity of smaller units around swamps them.

After that period it moves towards a more Divisional focus as reinforcements and round out units arrive allowing recombination of Divisions and replacements start to fill up Divs and some of the smaller adhoc units disband.

Over time Frontier/Light Horse Bn's in India and Australia disband - in India because some Divisional TOE's move to having a 10th Bn and in Australia because they were absorbed in other formations and manpower was needed.

Andy

What Andy says is also true for US forces.

The US doesn't have enough divisions to garrison key islands along the SLOC to Australia. As in the actual war, the player will find himself breaking down divisions to guard important islands by assembling Regimental Combat Teams (an infantry regiment, artillery battalion, coastal AA battalion and other odds and ends as available), and defending lesser islands with the useful Marine Defense Bns.

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Dont worry the Australian Militia are all heavily under strength at start they are not quite at 25% strenght the actuals vary unit by unit effective stregnth incl disruption at start are on the order of 30% overall with some units nearer 100% i.e. 30th Bde when it arrives.

Is it possible to make these units full strength but with a static device that gets replaced by a non-static device TO&E on a specific date? By making them under strength you simply make it cheaper to release them to non-fixed commands, thus necessitating a house rule about their release.

Jim

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
My TO&E standard is Stanton's "World War II Order of Battle" which does not show the Special Cavalry TO&E. If anyone has it to share, I'd be delighted to see it.

I know I've read before that the 1st Cavalry was equipped as a light infantry division in WWII after they turned in their horses, but I can't find/remember the book I read that in. It also had some unique aspects to its TO&E, this page gives some insights into the organizational changes made, but not a specific TO&E.

http://www.first-team.us/journals/1stndx02.html

Jim

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Over course of late 42 early 43 the 6 independent LH Bn sized forces disband (de facto some of these moved into the Bdes above and other regts were merged or disbanded)

Hi Andy,

With all the mandatory disbandment’s in game now, is there some note on the unit info display to warn players of the disbandment date? If not players will need to memorize all the organizational changes, a feat I doubt can be achieved. I can already hear the complaints piling up, “I lost Noumea because the entire defending force disbanded right as the Japanese began their attack”.

Jim

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Over course of late 42 early 43 the 6 independent LH Bn sized forces disband (de facto some of these moved into the Bdes above and other regts were merged or disbanded)

Hi Andy,

With all the mandatory disbandment’s in game now, is there some note on the unit info display to warn players of the disbandment date? If not players will need to memorize all the organizational changes, a feat I doubt can be achieved. I can already hear the complaints piling up, “I lost Noumea because the entire defending force disbanded right as the Japanese began their attack”.

Jim

Can answer this: You can see the disbandment date in the unit screen (something like 'withdraw in 550 days'). Btw., not really a problem for the Japanese player. If I remember correctly, only two IJA units are set to disband (but some SNLF are set to convert to Naval Garrison Units).

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

can rail lines, bridges be targeted by airpower to slow down the movement of troop/reinforcements in the rear areas (like the Allies did at Normandy)?

Not that I’m aware of.

An interdiction mission was discussed for Air units that would have this effect, but it was determined to be Outside The Scope (OTS).

How about the small special mission/recon forces like Australian 2/2 Commando Squadron & 2/8 Commando Squadron; 6th Ranger Bn; Alamo Scouts; 5217th Recon Bn... Will they make the cut?

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
My TO&E standard is Stanton's "World War II Order of Battle" which does not show the Special Cavalry TO&E. If anyone has it to share, I'd be delighted to see it.

I know I've read before that the 1st Cavalry was equipped as a light infantry division in WWII after they turned in their horses, but I can't find/remember the book I read that in. It also had some unique aspects to its TO&E, this page gives some insights into the organizational changes made, but not a specific TO&E.

http://www.first-team.us/journals/1stndx02.html

Jim

Jim,

Thanks. Yes, it was organized as a slightly-smaller-than-standard infantry division in 1943 still using some aspects of the cav TO&E including, I know 4 artillery battalions and a tank company, but exactly how much smaller was the infantry component is mostly what I would like to know. In 1945 the division reorganized as a standard infantry division.

ORIGINAL: GI Jive

How about the small special mission/recon forces like Australian 2/2 Commando Squadron & 2/8 Commando Squadron; 6th Ranger Bn; Alamo Scouts; 5217th Recon Bn... Will they make the cut?

For the US, 6th Ranger Battalion is in, with its historic commander [correcting a rare error by Stanton, who does not include it in the PTO]. The Alamo Scouts are not -- they conducted squad and platoon-sized raids and recon -- too small to make the cut.

In general, a combat unit had to be at least battalion-sized to be included in the OOB as an independent unit.

Jim we cannot make them static they are needed for a defence of Australia making all or some static would not work I am uncomfortable doing that in Canada and could not see it as viable in Australia 

Is there any way to prevent them from being transferred to another HQ, thereby making them a permanent garrison of Australia or Canada?

Broadly a lot of small company sized forces exist at start especially in SOPAC - i..e 1st BN NGVR is spread out over NG and New Britain
 
Aus Ind Companies are also spread out.
 
Small units and independent forces tended to be formed because there were insufficient full TOE properly constituted forces at Bde and Div level. On the allied side they are a function on the allied inadequate preparations and will probably for th emost part be run over
 
Wren Force, Heron Garrison, RM Viper Force, Black Force various NZ small garrisons and forces are all scattered because the allies dont have proper forces.
 
The only real independent forces that arrive later in the war are the Chindit Bdes (5 of them) and the Commando Bde.
 
I dont like having to many sub Bde sized forces later in the war it leads to issues and exploits and they are not really required so we tend not to add them

Yup there is simply to much ad until it is finalised we dont want to release it although we are now pretty much done the land build.

I would have been finished days ago had it not been for the Lighthorsemen of the Apocolypse !!!

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Andy,

I love it, but would like to see the whole picture, which is probably impossible.

Here is another little challenge for you all
 
ABDA has 4 subordinate commands in AE can you name them (3 land and 1 air)
 
1.
2.
3.
4.

1. ABDA Air
2. ABDA Land - Burma Command
3. ABDA Land - Malaya Command
4. ABDA Land - Australian Command

Or something like that? [&:]