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gamer78 wrote: Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:15 pm

warspite1 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:35 pm

gamer78 wrote: Sun Jun 22, 2025 5:57 pm

Hmm so civil war no naval power both sides. Perhaps not enough institutions. I'll wait for Warspite1 answer as he has the 'book'.

warspite1

Hi gamer78, the title refers to the fact that the Nationalists and Republicans each took control of various ships of the Spanish Fleet at the outbreak of the civil war. Having done so, both sides used their ships for a variety of purposes - including blockade, shore bombardment in support of ground offensives and landings, convoy duty (both troop and supply convoys), offensive sorties etc.

When you say "no naval power both sides" this was not the case. Both sides were able to commandeer units of the fleet - albeit the split of forces was far from equal - the Nationalists for example had no submarines and only one destroyer, while they did have access to the newer cruisers.

Yes I mean by numbers. Ofcourse they've navy institutions. How many submarines and destroyers if not copright issue. And navy was that much important? Royal Navy and France let Franco cross the Gilbatar from N.Africa. Apart from navy Buenaventura Durruti's anarchists to Zaragoza interesting also to a 3rd party to civil war.

warspite1

I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence, but to answer the first two queries:

1. The make-up changed a little over time and some ships were sunk, damaged, captured or foreign vessels were added to the OOB. However, as a rough guide the make-up of each was as follows:

Nationalists

Battleship
Espana

Heavy Cruisers
Baleares
Canarias

Light Cruisers
Cervera

Destroyers
Velasco

Submarines
None


Republicans

Battleship
Jaime I

Heavy Cruisers
None

Light Cruisers/old
Libertad
Cervantes
Nunez
Republica

Destroyers
16 either built or under-going construction

Submarines
B1 - B6
C1 - C6

In addition, various smaller vessels were employed by one or both sides

2. I'm not sure what you mean by British and French allowed the Nationalists to cross from Morocco. The Republicans were the ones fighting the Nationalists. I can't imagine, with everything going on in the rest of Europe, the British and French want to get involved in a Civil War and, at the same time, potentially get into a shooting war with the Germans & Italians....let alone find themselves fighting alongside Communists (I mean that would never happen would it )

I'd strongly recommend you give this a try if possible.

Thanks for the numbers and names of the fleets. Not to judge any politics at the time but nationalists become fascists and rebublicans become communists. Even İsmet Pasha(kaiser) with Marshall aid only with progressive village institutes become communist. It was easy to become communist I think at that time.

The Winter Warriors is a historical novel written by Olivier Norek, which focuses on the journey of Simo Häyhä, a Finnish sniper who became a national hero during the Winter War (1939-1940) between Finland and the USSR. The book highlights the resistance of the Finnish people against the Soviet invader, while drawing inspiration from dialogue and real events. The novel was shortlisted for the 2024 Prix Goncourt, highlighting its impact and relevance.

From Soviet invader:
Üzeyir Hacıbəyov, Azerbaijan 'Molière'. Məşədi İbad
folk dance fascinating. Not a book but comma in history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8J1qJm ... rt_radio=1

I'm currently reading two of Antony Beevor's books:
D-Day: The Battle for Normandy and Ardennes 1944: The Battle of the Bulge.

So far, they've been very interesting.

"Soldiers of Destruction", by Charles W. Sydnor Jr.

This is the story of the 3rd SS Division 'Totenkopf', although the author is clearly fascinated by its founder, Theodor Eicke. The division was made up of concentration camp guards, and the first part of the book is about how they were created and run. I read this book once before a long time ago, and it is incredibly absorbing and fascinating.

From the national archives catalog, i received this about a year ago (may 15, 2025):

---

→ Victory in Europe

In March of 1945, American troops crossed the Rhine into Germany. It was the beginning of the end of the Third Reich, which would surrender to the Allies on May 8th.
In celebration of the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, we’re taking a look at some of the records captured by American troops in the last months of the war.

Record Group 242 National Archives Collection of Foreign Records Seized consists of files from various countries that were collected throughout the twentieth century. The seized German records include papers about the German military’s war plans, such as maps and lists of targets like this one showing an aerial photograph of a town in Kent, England along with a list of possible targets.

Target Dossier for Northfleet, Kent, England, National Archives Identifier 290660576

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/290660576



→ Among the papers in this record group that you can find in the Catalog are microfilmed records of American prisoners of war. Some records, like the one below, even include photographs.

While local records were returned quickly, various German documents stayed in the hands of the U.S. and British military for several years after the war, partly because there was no central government in Germany to receive them. The redrawing of national boundaries and large scale population displacement also delayed the return of some records. At the same time, the Allied countries wanted to use the evidence in the records to prosecute German leaders for war crimes. To that end, the records from the concentration camps were microfilmed.

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/475782248


→ Camp Records - Inmate Cards - Mauthausen - Records on Prisoners, Boh-Gas, National Archives Catalog 88498560

In the 1950s, the US and its NATO allies worked out a framework for returning the papers. Many in the historical community expressed worry that the records would disappear once they left American custody. The military partnered with the American Historical Association to microfilm them. The seized records included things from long before World War II such as the papers of generals who fought Napoleon, Otto von Bismarck’s son Herbert, and King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia.

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/88498560


→ finally, if you want to become a citizen archivist:



Citizen Archivist
2025-04-15_11-19-55
Revolutionary War Pension Files Tagging Mission

Join us to tag Revolutionary War Pension records that have already been transcribed!

If you’ve spent any time working with these records, you’ve probably noticed that Americans were inconsistent spellers. By adding a tag that uses a standardized version of a name or battle, you will help increase the chances of it being found by users. Adding tags also creates a link to all records with that tag. Here’s an example of records tagged with Revolutionary War Substitute. We ask that you add tags suggested in the Tags to Add list in the tagging mission instructions.

https://www.archives.gov/citizen-archiv ... ng-mission


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Just finished Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson - a highly regarded book on the American Civil War.

Now onto "Cromwell - our chief of men" by Antonia Fraser.