Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Obvert, please step back and take a deep breath. It isn't dissent that is being challenged or shut down.

It's snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that are being rightfully attacked.

I expect the next moderator visit here will result in a lock now that the efforts at antagonism on the part of one bad apple have borne fruit.

Some people just can't play nice and stick to the rules....GP

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Obvert, please step back and take a deep breath. It isn't dissent that is being challenged or shut down.

It's snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that are being rightfully attacked.

I expect the next moderator visit here will result in a lock now that the efforts at antagonism on the part of one bad apple have borne fruit.

It absolutely is dissent that is being shut down, suggesting that it is otherwise is clearly not the case.

As for the snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that you are so righteous in attacking, where is your response to the outright, open and inflammatory insults directed at me? Is your righteousness contingent on other factors?

Obvert is absolutely right in what he says.

Bad News Wrapped in Protein: Inside the Coronavirus Genome
April 3, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ket-newtab

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I am aware that there's a lot of squishiness out there, especially here. The numbers of how many have died in MO and which county the cases apply to keeps changing, as an example. The JH numbers contain a lot of "unassigned" confirmed cases for States where they haven't determined what jurisdiction within the state to apply them to, and when stuff like that is happening are mistakes made such as counting the same case twice or two cases as one, does that ever happen? Yep.

So you've grasped one of the core problems. If there's that degree of "squishiness" in the US, imagine that on a global scale.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Of course there aren't enough tests to simultaneously test 1/3rd of billion people. There aren't enough medical people to COLLECT 1/3rd of billion tests or enough laboratory techs to RUN 1/3rd of billion tests or enough medical people to give results and advice to 1/3rd of a billion people.

Suppose you test 1/3rd of a billion people on Saturday and you have a million lab couriers to take the tests to the lab and a million techs running 330 labs each and everyone shows up to work on time and works on nothing else so it's all done by 2 PM and now you need 10 million nurses and doctors to call all 330 million and everyone HAS a phone and ANSWERS their phone (even the illegal aliens of which there are 20 million) and when they answer you need translators for Hmong and Que-Che and Cantonese and Swahili etc.

Now you have 35 million positives and you have to counsel them and tell them to stay home which they have already been advised to do...WHEW! Now, on Sunday, you only have 300 million to retest because some of them will have converted during the night....and there you go again.

The only practical way to measure incidence in a prospective fashion in a large population with many asymptomatic cases is with a sizable careful random sample.

In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.

Yes, thank you for that helpful addition to the discussion. Setting the example for behaviour that you expect others to follow?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

While emergency services and health care professionals and myriad other support folks fight this long battle, I was fortunate to spend the day outdoors in the northwest Georgia mountains.

I hiked six miles of the Pinhoti Trail, topping out on Horn Mountain and dropping to Snake Creek Gap. The birds and flowers were showing their stuff. Then I bicycled back to the truck via lovely mountain roads.

There were a zillion people using the trails and roads - bicyclists, motorcyclists, motorists, hikers, families, couples, individuals. More than I've ever seen in that remote area. All keeping their distance from others, as best I could tell.

On the long climb up the mountain, an army medic (reserve or National Guard probably) was in the midst of a training hike, wearing fatigues and with full pack. He was fatigued and said that, when he got home, he would sit naked in his apartment and drink beer for the balance of the weekend. I thanked him for his service and told him that was too much information. He was a nice young man.

So, in short, you and a "zillion" other people were acting against professional medical advice.

Smart. Really clever. Other nations in a similar position are in lockdowns of various severity, but not Northwestern Georgia. They're the exception, right? [:-]

This has been a great thread, doing exactly what I had hoped. We've gotten a lot of great information from a lot of people everywhere. We've had people with particular expertise weigh in with their own thoughts. There are differences of opinion but mostly folks get along and self-regulate. I've taken thoughts posted in here by John Dillworth, Obvert, RFalvo, Chickenboy, Cap Mandrake and shared them with my family, both in writing and in conversation. This is an excellent community. In person, I believe everyone here would be most gracious to everybody else. Without exception.

I've known many of the people in here for years. Over that time, most of them have built up tremendous deposits of good will. If they've said the wrong thing in here, from time, to time, those can be overlooked (mostly, usually) because they have such established records. That's happened a few times.

There is one person in here who overdrew his account of good will seriously. He's made the atmosphere poisonous. He's provoked other members to various expressions of outrage or leaving. I've seen people who have never had a discouraging word become uncharacteristically miffed at him, but it's not them. It's him. He's the poison.

And he has his enablers. While most people in here say what they think, there is one who tells others what to think. He cloaks his words in "I want to build bridges" while doing his work and tearing them down. When he gets things absolutely, demonstratively wrong, he slips away in the dark. Always, 100% of the time, refuses to acknowledge a mistake.

There is one other that internalizes things and sees boogeymen where there aren't any. A few days ago, he posted that it was an age thing for me; that I was picking on him and others because of generational matters, which isn't true. Until that moment, I had no idea how old he was. From the context of his comment, I now suppose he's in his 30s or 40s but for all I knew, until then, he was my age or 20 or 80. Another fellow I know pretty well is, I think, in his late 40s, but's that's my age (or so I think). The poisoner is comparatively younger based on a comment he made a year ago in another thread, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter.

Or is there some component to generational things that explains the behavior of these three? Is that why the poisoner and his enablers insist on keeping everything public? Is that why they refused every request to keep this private or take matters private? Is this a Facebook way of doing things? (Probably not - there are undoubtedly a bunch of folks in here, younger and older, who use Facebook but don't act this way.)

I have the poisoner on Ignore and it's worked pretty well - not perfectly, but well. I'm adding his two enablers. They've seriously drawn on their stock of goodwill. Not overdrawn though. I'll be glad to discuss things privately with them at length, in depth. Always have been.

Every person in here is a good man in person, I believe. Even the one who poisoned this thread.

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/sta ... 9785492480

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Signed up to be an NHS volunteer last week.

Got my confirmation through so will be "on call" for transport related issues on Monday.

I used to work for the NHS and absolutely it was the most boring job I have ever had! Sure as hell its not going to be at the moment.

I hope they are going to have the PPE for you and train you in whatever new protocols they are using before they send you out!

Christ no, I'll just be delivering prescriptions and stuff I think. Hopefully I get some hand sanitizer to disinfect after every delivery but that will be all I need.

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/sta ... 9785492480

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

I hope you are right Canoerebel, but have you got a nationwide shut down yet?

Look, the UK have messed up big style by following the wrong path for two weeks, but at least we changed it when it became horrifying obvious that thousands more would die.

But people on here are blaming China, when they really should be looking at a lot closer to home on why this is spiralling out of control.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/sta ... 9785492480

Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/sta ... 9785492480

Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

Yup. If you watch Fox News (not saying you do btw!) then you would have a totally different view to the crisis.

You might think that going to church is still ok for example.

Durned Wolf, I was referring to a similar post made yesterday about Georgia which was shown to be false by the actual provisions of the Georgia ordinance. The nationwide press has been getting it wrong. I'm not sure how many states allow religious services but I don't think many places actually are even if permitted to.

Nationwide decrees or statewide decrees may not be necessary when local jurisdictions act promptly, as they mostly have in the US. They have their fingers on the pulse of what's going. As noted in here, Georgia shut down it's schools three weeks ago, ahead of England. With a few exceptions, I think our federal system has worked pretty well.

Other countries are comparatively small, size wise, and one-decree-fits-all may work well there. Culturally, I'm sure England and many other countries tend to act as a nation. The US is much larger, so that what works best for New York may not for Nevada; and what is needed in Oklahoma City may not be needed in the Panhandle. We're accustomed in the US to doing it that way and it seems to be working pretty well here.

I'm not saying others should do it our way; I am saying that what works in your neck of the woods may not suit us.

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/sta ... 9785492480

Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

The Fox News thing is a misconception.

I've never seen Fox News (not once, ever) but many people I know have. These are the people who acted locally to close schools and churches and impose strict local guidelines.

If Fox News viewers are prone to mistakes, so are the viewers of CNN and other networks.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

Yup. If you watch Fox News (not saying you do btw!) then you would have a totally different view to the crisis.

You might think that going to church is still ok for example.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This has been a great thread, doing exactly what I had hoped. We've gotten a lot of great information from a lot of people everywhere. We've had people with particular expertise weigh in with their own thoughts. There are differences of opinion but mostly folks get along and self-regulate. I've taken thoughts posted in here by John Dillworth, Obvert, RFalvo, Chickenboy, Cap Mandrake and shared them with my family, both in writing and in conversation. This is an excellent community. In person, I believe everyone here would be most gracious to everybody else. Without exception.

I've known many of the people in here for years. Over that time, most of them have built up tremendous deposits of good will. If they've said the wrong thing in here, from time, to time, those can be overlooked (mostly, usually) because they have such established records. That's happened a few times.

There is one person in here who overdrew his account of good will seriously. He's made the atmosphere poisonous. He's provoked other members to various expressions of outrage or leaving. I've seen people who have never had a discouraging word become uncharacteristically miffed at him, but it's not them. It's him. He's the poison.

The fact of the matter is that behind the ant-bellum camaraderie charade that you adopt, you cannot accept any viewpoint as correct unless it fits with your own. Related to this is your repeated attempts to keep control of the discussion to avoid facts that you find challenging to deal with.

That has been demonstrated several times on this thread.

Rather that deal with this cognitive dissonance (and make no mistake, cognitive dissonance is what it is), it is much easier to adopt the role of being aggrieved by a malicious outside force, in the form of this "poisoner".

And he has his enablers. While most people in here say what they think, there is one who tells others what to think. He cloaks his words in "I want to build bridges" while doing his work and tearing them down. When he gets things absolutely, demonstratively wrong, he slips away in the dark. Always, 100% of the time, refuses to acknowledge a mistake.

Please, provide examples! I am always willing to be proven wrong.

Unless I have missed it, there has been zero (0) evidence presented to challenge any claims that I've made in this thread.

Which is really what this is all about. You have a preference for narrative and anecdote. Mine is for facts and statistics. Both have their merits, but one is much heavier than the other, as you will well know.

There is one other that internalizes things and sees boogeymen where there aren't any. A few days ago, he posted that it was an age thing for me; that I was picking on him and others because of generational matters, which isn't true. Until that moment, I had no idea how old he was. From the context of his comment, I now suppose he's in his 30s or 40s but for all I knew, until then, he was my age or 20 or 80. Another fellow I know pretty well is, I think, in his late 40s, but's that's my age (or so I think). The poisoner is comparatively younger based on a comment he made a year ago in another thread, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter.

Not in the slightest.

I have found your attitude of consistent and unabashed optimism exceptionally inappropriate. I can't recall having ever seen an individual simply refuse to acknowledge factual evidence (that they have found themselves!) as it didn't fit with their conception of how events were unfolding.

Unsure how age is relevant to this discussion.

Or is there some component to generational things that explains the behavior of these three? Is that why the poisoner and his enablers insist on keeping everything public? Is that why they refused every request to keep this private or take matters private? Is this a Facebook way of doing things? (Probably not - there are undoubtedly a bunch of folks in here, younger and older, who use Facebook but don't act this way.)

Likely in the interests of full disclosure, and to keep at least a veneer of civility.

Your own PM's to me, for example, are the valid justification in my eyes. They would not be fitting with the narrative you have outlined above.

I have the poisoner on Ignore and it's worked pretty well - not perfectly, but well. I'm adding his two enablers. They've seriously drawn on their stock of goodwill. Not overdrawn though. I'll be glad to discuss things privately with them at length, in depth. Always have been.

Every person in here is a good man in person, I believe. Even the one who poisoned this thread.

No, we'll keep this public, thank you. Transparency is something of great value.

This is no doubt of some embarrassment to your attempts of being the genial gentlemen that you work so hard to come across as, so I think we'll keep it public to highlight just how duplicitous you can be when someone dares to take a position contrary to yours.

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways [8|].

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


HEED MY WORDS! DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways [8|].

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.

Yeah, it's something of a double blow after Prince Charles too. Definitely reinforced the "one rule for us, another for the peons" vibe.

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways [8|].

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.

Yeah, it's something of a double blow after Prince Charles too. Definitely reinforced the "one rule for us, another for the peons" vibe.

warspite1

Yep - we need LEADERS we can trust, leaders we can believe in. People to step up and take the lead. But.... same as it ever was I guess [&:]

Canoerebel - yesterday was what - three pages back? Next time, how about you go back, get that link, and quote it so we might-could see what you are referencing?

(I've edited the line above. I said that there was nothing Canoerebel shared referred to a previous post and I was wrong. My bad.)

when I share a link from CNN in response that shows several states allowing houses of worship to stay open as "essential activity" and you counter with what you posted below... dude! The article I shared was as of April 2nd. The CNN link Encircled shared was an interview of someone leaving a church after attending worship...

I'm glad for you and all Georgians that the state of Georgia is doing such a swell job of cracking down on the virus. In my opinion, California is doing a pretty good job also.

I know people that wish to attend church regardless of the virus. I know others that say they can easily practice their faith at home until we get through this.

I appreciate your views of Nation-wide-press. I have grave concerns over our world-wide-press. But that doesn't give me leave to say what Encircled posted was inaccurate within a public forum unless I have something else to back up my claim...

Encircled is from across the pond. Both you and I are from the US but in different states. We all see the world through our own lens and many of us differ on how best to combat COVID-19.

All I'm saying is that it's bogus to put down what Encircled shared simply because you think it "might be" inaccurate. Let the guy post what he is seeing and considers relevant. Some of us really want to hear what others are seeing\feeling\thinking. We all learn better through sharing information.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Durned Wolf, I was referring to a similar post made yesterday about Georgia which was shown to be false by the actual provisions of the Georgia ordinance. The nationwide press has been getting it wrong. I'm not sure how many states allow religious services but I don't think many places actually are even if permitted to.

Nationwide decrees or statewide decrees may not be necessary when local jurisdictions act promptly, as they mostly have in the US. They have their fingers on the pulse of what's going. As noted in here, Georgia shut down it's schools three weeks ago, ahead of England. With a few exceptions, I think our federal system has worked pretty well.

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.

Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

Around here, the churches are shut down. But the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution prohibits government interference in religion.

I would say that outdoor service might be fine, depending upon the weather.

I personally have blocked two people here. The second one because he would not respond a clarification when he denigrated what I had to say in one of my posts. The other was when he questioned what someone else posted then I posted his quote and the link that answered the question that he had. No response showed me that he did not care to be enlightened but rather just wanted to cause trouble. At least, that is what it appeared to me.

Why would you say outdoor services are fine?

What medical evidence do you have to back that up?