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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:31 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510




It was Nemo. You are correct. I follow the same composition as much as I can.. hard to in the early stages of the war.

So EVERY TF you listed has DD escorts to fill the TF up to 12 ships.. I follow.

Do you have a dedicated ASW (the x12 DD groups I am assuming) that every TF follows, and everyone is set to react - 0? How do you use the retirement/remain on station setting then?

Thanks.

Yes, except the CV/CVE TFs which has 25 ships. Every TF is set to follow Fast CV 1. All set to react 0. I only use single hex patrol zone for movement as I have found that ships tend to ignore "remain on station" I never ever use waypoints or full speed. Less things that can F up. [:)]

Ive noticed the same things on "remain on station" sometimes and have gone the same route as a 1 hex patrol. Especially SAGs.. they tend to actually react that way.

Thanks.

To my knowledge, TFs set to Remain on Station will not react.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:09 pm
by jeffk3510
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

ORIGINAL: JocMeister




Yes, except the CV/CVE TFs which has 25 ships. Every TF is set to follow Fast CV 1. All set to react 0. I only use single hex patrol zone for movement as I have found that ships tend to ignore "remain on station" I never ever use waypoints or full speed. Less things that can F up. [:)]

Ive noticed the same things on "remain on station" sometimes and have gone the same route as a 1 hex patrol. Especially SAGs.. they tend to actually react that way.

Thanks.

To my knowledge, TFs set to Remain on Station will not react.

Correct. I mean that if I keep them in a patrol hex, they will react.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:16 pm
by FeurerKrieg
Always stuff to learn.

So do I understand correctly that this:
TF1: 4 BB, 8 DD
TF2: 4CA, 8 DD

Is better than this?
TF1: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD
TF2: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD

If anyone has a link to a thread discussing Nemo's testing I'd love to read it.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:27 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
To my knowledge, TFs set to Remain on Station will not react.

I can´t swear by it but I´m pretty certain I have had reactions despite RoS set.
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
Always stuff to learn.

So do I understand correctly that this:
TF1: 4 BB, 8 DD
TF2: 4CA, 8 DD

Is better than this?
TF1: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD
TF2: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD

If anyone has a link to a thread discussing Nemo's testing I'd love to read it.

Yes, that is correct. I think the discussion is somewhere in the GJ vs Rader AAR.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:47 am
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]10th-11th May -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Frustrating turn!

------------------------
East China Sea
------------------------

Everything works exactly as intended. Except for the fact that 100 planes out of 3500 flew...Bloody weather. It turns out Erik has been using empty xAKs as a shield in front of his combat ships. Probably to eat up OPS and leave any combat ships too far away at sea when dawn break. Smart. My subs sink 3 of them. I lose another 6 subs to mines and DCs. No TTs against anything important.

The P47N sweeps catch some of KBs CAP down at 20k. This is the first of about 10 sweeps. Nice!
Morning Air attack on Tsushima , at 103,56

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 105
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 7
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 16
Ki-84r Frank x 11
Ki-100-I Tony x 1
Ki-102b Randy x 11


Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 12 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 3 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

During the day we shoot down 84 KB Fighters. No doubt they are the best he has. Good haul! Erik isn´t too happy with the P47N [:)]

After that the only strike goes in against the only TF in the area which isn´t blanketed by weather.... [8|]
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tsushima at 102,56

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 39
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 29

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak


Japanese Ships
E Hiyodori, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kusunoki
E Yanagi, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

The Fleet will now move slightly to the south to get into a position to send in the DDs against anything that doesn´t withdraw into the Sea of Japan.

------------------------
China
------------------------

We get a good lick in against the Canton/HK stack.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 80,58 (near Kukong)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 199987 troops, 3735 guns, 3235 vehicles, Assault Value = 7289

Defending force 108553 troops, 1244 guns, 381 vehicles, Assault Value = 3450

Allied adjusted assault: 4494

Japanese adjusted defense: 3268

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3613 casualties reported
Squads: 229 destroyed, 357 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 18 disabled
Guns lost 80 (38 destroyed, 42 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
5578 casualties reported
Squads: 49 destroyed, 825 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 65 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 343 disabled
Guns lost 206 (4 destroyed, 202 disabled)
Vehicles lost 53 (4 destroyed, 49 disabled)

A Chinese Corp and an Indian ID are pretty trashed but the rest of the troops could have attacked again if it wasn´t for supply. I´ll have to live with the fact that Erik got away. Well played by Erik.

I have to stand down my bombers for now and let them heal up. I´ll also divert a bunch of troops to take Canton/HK while the rest move North towards Changsha.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:30 am
by CaptBeefheart
Lemme guess, Gunzan landing (AKA Kunsan or Gunsan)?

Cheers,
CC

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:33 am
by aztez
Lets hope you wohn't get screwed up by the weather. Always dangerous to have allied carriers so close to LBA... even at later months! [:D]

Next couple of turns should definately be intresting ones...

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:08 am
by jeffk3510
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Always stuff to learn.

So do I understand correctly that this:
TF1: 4 BB, 8 DD
TF2: 4CA, 8 DD

Is better than this?
TF1: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD
TF2: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD

If anyone has a link to a thread discussing Nemo's testing I'd love to read it.

It is in Greyjoy vs Rader in his AAR - The Power of Inexperience. I also have a word file if you want.

Thanks.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:21 pm
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]12th May -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

We are staring at each other across the ring! The coming week will decide the war.

------------------------
East China Sea
------------------------

My fleet withdrew a couple of hexes SW to see what Erik would do. While I might have missed the BBs I still managed to chase the IJN away. The BBs have moved to Hiroshima/Kure oddly enough. He might try to come up from the south and catch my shipping at Okinawa. No sign of KB. I think Erik might he pulled it back further into the Sea of Japan.

For tomorrow the fleet will withdraw 2 hexes south. We are linking up with the AUX fleet to refuel and rearm and replenish the losses suffered. The we will have to go in again. While the IJN is now dealt with I still have the IJAAF to deal with. But now with the airfields exposed to naval bombardments I´m confident I can chase the LBA away. Erik has only one level 9 AF on Kyushu and that is Nagasaki. I will probably need 3 days to get into position and clear the smaller shipping along the coast. There are many MTBs, DEs and other useless crafts in place.

I lost 2 subs sunk outright and another 5 had to RTB. I have to take the punishment for now. Erik is darting his DEs in and out. If he tries that in two days though...

------------------------
Okinawa
------------------------

All bases are now maxed out! Barges have started to pick all the engineers off the island to assemble at Naha.

------------------------
China
------------------------

Quiet day. My bomber fleet is stood down and have taken new pilots and planes. I will let them rest for 1 week before beginning the assault on Canton/HK. I can then rebase the the bombers further to the east. The armor has turned back towards our lines. They are too exposed and too easily cut off with 5000 Japanese AV behind them.

------------------------
Strat bombing
------------------------

The B24s take off and again hit nothing. Again weather was appalling with "heavy rain". I have had little luck with weather as of late. [:@] I lose 7 B24s for 4 NFs. Not good.

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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 pm
by Bullwinkle58
I know I sound like a broken record, but remember that a fighter might be a kami instead. Ditto on Formosa.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:58 pm
by JocMeister
Good point. Have to keep that in mind!

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:37 pm
by JocMeister
Had forgotten Erik is leaving town for the weekend. But he sent me a turn before leaving. I´ll get an update up tomorrow but no more turns until Monday most likely.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:19 pm
by Mike McCreery
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
To my knowledge, TFs set to Remain on Station will not react.

I can´t swear by it but I´m pretty certain I have had reactions despite RoS set.
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
Always stuff to learn.

So do I understand correctly that this:
TF1: 4 BB, 8 DD
TF2: 4CA, 8 DD

Is better than this?
TF1: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD
TF2: 2BB, 2CA, 8 DD

If anyone has a link to a thread discussing Nemo's testing I'd love to read it.

Yes, that is correct. I think the discussion is somewhere in the GJ vs Rader AAR.

Sometimes a taskforce on ROS will react if you dont have the routing set to direct/absolute. If you have that set then I have never seen one move.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:43 am
by Barb
Chasing Jap battleships by your own battleships is probably pretty damn dangerous business in relation to your possible losses in in points. Not to mention that any damage your battlewagons sustain, it will have to be repaired at Pearl/CONUS taking months?

Why are they so important for you to kill on offensive mission? Let them come into your prepared defense, or even better, get them by air (but you have to use your carriers cleverly so as not to loose another 500 planes in an attempt against strong CAP...

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:06 am
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: Barb

Chasing Jap battleships by your own battleships is probably pretty damn dangerous business in relation to your possible losses in in points. Not to mention that any damage your battlewagons sustain, it will have to be repaired at Pearl/CONUS taking months?

Why are they so important for you to kill on offensive mission? Let them come into your prepared defense, or even better, get them by air (but you have to use your carriers cleverly so as not to loose another 500 planes in an attempt against strong CAP...

You are correct, hence I wrote:
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
The objective is really simple. To either destroy or drive the IJN far into the Sea of Japan.

Erik has the KB, the BBs (10-12) and probably 10 or so smaller TFs guarding Kyushu. Either have to destroy them or chase them away. Really don´t want to see an IJN interference among the thousands of Amphibs. That could be very, very nasty.

Good news is Erik decided to flee. That doesn´t mean he won´t be back though. With some luck he might mistake the attempt to close Nagasaki as a landing and come rushing in.

The war will be decided in the next 5-7 turns...

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:39 pm
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]13th May -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Very quiet turn.

------------------------
East China Sea
------------------------

The fleet rendezvous with the AUX ships taking on fuel and ammo. Planes are topped off again from the VRF squadrons. Interestingly enough the entire fleet is undetected under thunderstorms. I wonder if that makes Erik nervous or if he believes we have retired out of the area.

KB and the BBs have disappeared. Erik seems to have kept his bombers back. Around 2000 are spread among Tokyo, Nagoya and Osaka. Another 500 is a Hiroshima. That is a lot of bombers... [X(] I guess he doesn´t dare move them forward with the coast exposed to bombardment. I guess he doesn´t really have to either. They are probably range limited to strike anything landing on Kyushu but not farther then that. Not much I can do about that.

I´ll move the fleet west of Saishu To. That will put me in a good spot to strike at Nagasaki as well as send in the DD/CLs to clear all the small ASW TFs in the area. I need them gone so they won´t eat OPS for the naval bombardments. It will also allow some long range search flying from the CVEs to take a peak into the Sea of Japan.

I forgot to cancel the "follow TF" on one of the amphibs which moved towards the fleet ending up alone in no mans land after an encounter with a sub. That could have ended badly... Going to send it back to Naha under full speed. 2 ASW TFs are dispatched to lead the TF in.

------------------------
China
------------------------

Nothing to note. All bombers are resting. Looks like Erik is withdrawing towards Shanghai? No idea why? Perhaps he intends to superstack there rather then building a proper MRL. I´m going to send some infantry up towards the Changsha.

------------------------
DEI
------------------------

Some Jakes go after my barge TF again but this the P51s on LRCAP deal with them. Erik also sends in a small DD TF sinking 3 more barges. I have some Fletcher arriving in 2 days. That will put an end to that.




RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:47 pm
by JocMeister
Turn sent to Erik. Most likely there won´t be another one until tomorrow.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:43 am
by JocMeister
Erik got home really late last night and didn´t have time to send the turn. He should send it to me sometime during the day so an update won´t come until tonight.

Not expecting anything spectacular as we are just transiting into the start off position. I´m just hoping the slow BBs will make the 6 hexes which is their maximum distance at cruise speed. If not I´ll lose another turn. I need them 6 hexes from Nagasaki with a full load of OPS and fuel.

RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:38 pm
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]14th May -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

As expected not much happened.

------------------------
East China Sea
------------------------

I lose 2 more subs this turn. But now I´m in a great position to strike back at all those "Es" between Kyushu and Korea so hopefully sub losses will shrink once they are dealt with.

As a bonus one of Eriks "E" TFs working a bit further to the south reacted into (at least I think so) one of my DD TFs hunting MTBs around Kagoshima.
Day Time Surface Combat, near Fukue-jima at 100,59, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E No.82, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
E No.84, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
E No.102, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
E No.104, Shell hits 25, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Purdy
DD Grenville
DD Kempenfelt
DD Eskimo

My navy didn´t move as far as I had hoped. Erik spotted some of my TFs including one of the BB TFs, a CL TF, the oilers and the AEs. Highest DL is 3/3 though and none of the CV/CVE TFs are spotted. But he have to realize they are there.

Not really sure have to play the next turn yet. I will probably send in some of the Fletcher TFs this turn while the fleet moves the last hex. That should rid the pesky MTBs and "Es" but might give away my intentions.

------------------------
China
------------------------

Nothing to report.

------------------------
DEI
------------------------

I had a DD TF set to strike the Jap DDs at Singers. They only moved 3 hexes though? No idea why.

------------------------
Stratbombing
------------------------

I finally managed to knock out the 60 LI at Kagoshima. Only took 500 B29s 3 weeks. Lucky me nightbombing is so overpowered or I would have to do it for three more weeks. [8|]



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RE: Battle for Okinawa!

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:15 am
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]2nd Battle for the East China Sea[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

So, I had my first CV reaction. Not a pleasant experience...the CV Fleet separated from the Amphibs and that cost me some Amphibs I shouldn´t have lost. But luckily the CVs/CVEs stayed together.

Turns like these are hard because you lose so much. You have to keep the bigger picture in mind. Oddly enough today was a victory. Bittersweet but still a victory. Erik had his chance and did a lot of damage. But not enough...

------------------------
The Battle
------------------------

Yesterday I decided to move the entire fleet closer to the coast. I did this to intentionally draw Eriks strikes. The thought was that I rather take the strikes when not having to devote LRCAP to covering a landing or split the CVEs off. Not sure it was the right call but done is done.

I also decided to stand down my strike planes to put the Escorts on CAP. This I think was the right call as at the end of the day Corsairs was spent with only 150 left on CAP while the 700 Hellcats still flying managed to deflect countless of LBA strikes.

There was so much happening its hard to report everything but basically the entire Japanese air force and the KB launched from 3 hexes against my CV fleet. I got a really good CAP up but two KB strikes managed to get through.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Nakadori-jima at 101,56

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 187
B7A2 Grace x 182
D4Y4 Judy x 261


Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 121
Corsair IV x 114
Hellcat I x 30
Hellcat F.II x 16
Seafire IIC x 16
Seafire L.III x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 78
F4U-1D Corsair x 552
F6F-5 Hellcat x 887


Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 65 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 60 destroyed, 14 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 76 destroyed, 22 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
Hellcat F.II: 1 destroyed
Seafire IIC: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 7 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 12 destroyed


Allied Ships
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CVL Langley, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Viking, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, Kamikaze hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Valhalla, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CVL Cabot, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Healy
CV Victorious, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CV Franklin, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Makin Island, Torpedo hits 1
CV Indefatigable, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CLAA Oakland, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Mertz
DD Remey, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Corregidor, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA San Diego, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Evans, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Halford, Bomb hits 1
DD John Henley, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hale
DD Albert Grant, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Converse
CVE Matanikau, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Luce, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

That is the worst strike. Another KB strike in the afternoon finished most of the damaged ships off.

Sadly and most importantly the Amphibs didn´t react and was left without CAP which cost me. Luckily not too badly. I lose only 2 APAs and another 10 or so damaged but in no danger of sinking. Considering there are some 200 APAs/AKAs its not going to change anything.

------------------------
Losses
------------------------

Sunk:
CV Frankling, CV Victorious, CV Valhalla, CV Viking, CVL Independence, CVL Cabot and CVL Langley

Will sink:
Indefatigable, 3 CVEs, DD Remney, 2 APAs

Might make it:
CV Bunker Hill (64/53/37)

------------------------
Aftermath
------------------------

This might look very bad but I only lost about one seventh of my carrier capabilities. Not much given the big picture. Now I just have to make sure I havn´t suffered the losses in vain. I put the CV Fleet there to do a job and they did what I wanted them to do. 1700 Japanese planes are shot down during the battle. The KB air wings are wrecked again and LBA won´t be a factor for at least a week. My amphibs are intact.

Tomorrow we land in Korea.



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