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Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:20 am
by STEF78
Due to the mechanics of the game (surrounded units are dead ducks) and to the difference of strength between the 2 armies, the logical and reasonable response should have been to flee west as fast as possible and to abandon the surrounded units.
It would be ahistorical and above all not fun.
So I decide to reopen the Pocket, trying to evacuate at least the mobile force but perfectly knowing that it is at 75% a decision that will cause more losses.
The Pocket is of course reopened but, knowing Oshawott tactical skills, I'm sure that it will be reclosed and surely most in the west.
Most of my FB were mopped up. They are now ineffective.
Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:22 am
by STEF78
230 battles this turn!
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:48 am
by loki100
ORIGINAL: STEF78
Due to the mechanics of the game (surrounded units are dead ducks) and to the difference of strength between the 2 armies, the logical and reasonable response should have been to flee west as fast as possible and to abandon the surrounded units.
It would be ahistorical and above all not fun.
So I decide to reopen the Pocket, trying to evacuate at least the mobile force but perfectly knowing that it is at 75% a decision that will cause more losses.
The Pocket is of course reopened but, knowing Oshawott tactical skills, I'm sure that it will be reclosed and surely most in the west.
Most of my FB were mopped up. They are now ineffective.
that was pretty grim (for you), think you are right to contest the pocket though and try to get out as much as you can, or at least keep the units in supply as long as you can, so they form a sort of breakwater in his advance. He must have some supply problems, especially for the northern wing, so it may be possible to get something out and tie him up for a few turns?
Pity your carefully nurtured FBs have just been trashed.
As, in a comment in his thread too, it now looks like you are committed to mobile warfare in the south till you can find some sort of line to build up. Time to abandon Rumania? (& their 1, damaged, tank)
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:01 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: loki100
that was pretty grim (for you), think you are right to contest the pocket though and try to get out as much as you can, or at least keep the units in supply as long as you can, so they form a sort of breakwater in his advance. He must have some supply problems, especially for the northern wing, so it may be possible to get something out and tie him up for a few turns?
My main problem is that Oshawott knows how to handle his mobile forces. This rescue could be a trap for my Pzg
Pity your carefully nurtured FBs have just been trashed.
True but it's not my main concern now [:D]
As, in a comment in his thread too, it now looks like you are committed to mobile warfare in the south till you can find some sort of line to build up. Time to abandon Rumania? (& their 1, damaged, tank)
I will perhaps have to give more than Romania....
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:09 pm
by STEF78
Turn 128, 25 november 1943
Immediate focus on Ukraine. The Pocket is well resealed and a good part of my units sent as reinforcement in the trap.
Should I stay or should I go? I fight and try to free my surrounded armies.I'm aware that I will have to pay the price for it against such a huge russian army
Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:14 pm
by STEF78
Consequence of the disaster in Ukraine: a general retreat is ordered to shorten the front
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:06 pm
by jwolf
It seems that no matter what you do, Oshawott has more reserves to throw into the battle for the Ukraine pocket. This really is looking like Stalingrad for 6th army, but a year later and much farther west.
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:22 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: jwolf
It seems that no matter what you do, Oshawott has more reserves to throw into the battle for the Ukraine pocket. This really is looking like Stalingrad for 6th army, but a year later and much farther west.
In fact it's more than 2 Stalingrad. I will spoil the result of the battle. It's a critical disaster!
600K men
1600 AFV
6000 guns
I am cancel and firm but it is a terrible blow!
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:29 pm
by Peltonx
So why do you waste your time on a completely fed up game?
1.08 fixed this Bulsht
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:18 pm
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: Pelton
So why do you waste your time on a completely fed up game?
1.08 fixed this Bulsht
Why do you spend so much time on this forum if you don't like this game?
Yu're a very good player and I learnt a lot from your AAR but you're much too negative
Please don't post such messages in this thread.
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:42 pm
by caliJP
Wow STEF this one is really going to hurt! Definitely a master stroke from Oshawott.
And now he has this massive Tank & Cavalry ball around Zhitomir and Vinnitsa and drive it west where you look pretty light.
You may almost need to pull most of your German units from the deep south and pull the plug on the Romanians but that in itself creates other problems.
Tough pickle!
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:24 am
by jwolf
ORIGINAL: STEF78
I am cancel and firm but it is a terrible blow!
I don't know what this means -- maybe it makes more sense in French? But I sympathize with your plight. I saw in Oshawott's AAR that he sealed the pocket the 3rd time, and it appeared you were out of reserves at that point. He really did completely change the character of the war with a huge and powerful mobile force that looks absolutely unstoppable. I am very impressed and terrified by the Red Army he has put together. I saw his plans in his AAR and thought he was too optimistic; I thought he could trap maybe about half of 6th army. I was just a little off. [:o] I honestly can't imagine how you will defend at this point but I hope you can prove me wrong.
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:22 am
by loki100
ORIGINAL: STEF78
ORIGINAL: jwolf
It seems that no matter what you do, Oshawott has more reserves to throw into the battle for the Ukraine pocket. This really is looking like Stalingrad for 6th army, but a year later and much farther west.
In fact it's more than 2 Stalingrad. I will spoil the result of the battle. It's a critical disaster!
600K men
1600 AFV
6000 guns
I am cancel and firm but it is a terrible blow!
that is dramatic, esp as it looks as if most your best mobile units are in the pocket - I hadn't realised how good his supply situation was.
presume the best you can now do is to try and delay him reaching the Vistula and try to build up a new fort line anchored on that sector?
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:17 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: caliJP
Wow STEF this one is really going to hurt! Definitely a master stroke from Oshawott.
And now he has this massive Tank & Cavalry ball around Zhitomir and Vinnitsa and drive it west where you look pretty light.
You may almost need to pull most of your German units from the deep south and pull the plug on the Romanians but that in itself creates other problems.
Tough pickle!
At the moment I don't know where I will be able to re establish a decent front line
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:19 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: loki100
that is dramatic, esp as it looks as if most your best mobile units are in the pocket - I hadn't realised how good his supply situation was.
presume the best you can now do is to try and delay him reaching the Vistula and try to build up a new fort line anchored on that sector?
I didn't realize too that he had finished the railroad in the pripyat marshes...
And my recon didn't show anything
Vistula is an option but we are in winter, it will be frozen
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:22 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: jwolf
I don't know what this means -- maybe it makes more sense in French? But I sympathize with your plight. I saw in Oshawott's AAR that he sealed the pocket the 3rd time, and it appeared you were out of reserves at that point. He really did completely change the character of the war with a huge and powerful mobile force that looks absolutely unstoppable. I am very impressed and terrified by the Red Army he has put together. I saw his plans in his AAR and thought he was too optimistic; I thought he could trap maybe about half of 6th army. I was just a little off. [:o] I honestly can't imagine how you will defend at this point but I hope you can prove me wrong.
He did a superb job. I'm Learning a lot from this game.
But in fact when I opened the 3rd turn of encirclement, my "wite-morale" was low
Concerning the defence, I'm scratching my head at the moment!
Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:23 am
by STEF78
Turn 129, 2nd december 1943
This time it's over. I won't be able to breach the curtains. My attempt to save the trapped units proved to be desastrous!
It was fun to try to free my armies but my falure leave my without anything valuable between Rowno and the romanian border.
It's time to trade space against time! Lucky if I reach summer 1944.
The last thing, December 2nd is the anniversary of the battle of Austerlitz. A beautiful revenge for the Russians!
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:07 am
by swkuh
Hitler needs to sack some Field Marshalls...
Will be interesting to see how long you can continue.
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:29 am
by STEF78
ORIGINAL: rrbill
Hitler needs to sack some Field Marshalls...
Will be interesting to see how long you can continue.
Strangely, no general was dismissed or executed this week.
Even more surprising, I always have access to my keyboard and to my mouse to manage the operations.
The traditions get lost!
RE: Disaster in Ukraine STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:33 am
by Flaviusx
Stef, for whatever it is worth, I admire your determination to see this thing out, even in the face of such a crushing defeat. I don't think I could do it, personally.
