Matrix Games Forums

Well guys I hate to say it but I disagree.

There are plenty of slots to do what you want so modders feel free but while some Divs arrive as Bdes that can be recombined the ethos we are following is that Divisions are the base unit unless there is a good reason to split them i.e. initial deployments. Despite the new map scale AE is still a Divisional level game not a smaller unit one like UV - you may disagree with that premise and I am sure modders will move everything to Bde level but that is not what we are doing nor do I believe it to be appropriate - but feel free to disagree

The scale of the game is Divisional we only go lower when we have to for main combat formations - ok principal disagreement explained [:D][:D]

and there is an added complication TOE upgrades only work on the ultimate parent which form most units is at the Division level.

For TOE upgrades to work on units that are lower than Div then these units need to be the top level unit.

i.e. 17th Div has three Bdes on map at start spread over the map.

17th Div TOE when recombined will upgrade to a light TOE and then back to a normal 44 Indian Div TOE and then finally to a Motorised TOE in 45.

The 3 Bdes as they start as splits of 17th Div have only got the first of these TOE's i.e. they are not automated TOE's they are broadly 1/3 of the first Divisonal TOE. These 1/3rds do not upgrade with the parent Div's TOE and are fixed.

In order to use TOE upgrades in this area you would need to have three seperate Bdes not linked to a Division and not therefore combinable

(you can of course recombine the Div and then split it again after the TOE has upgraded but you lose the bespoke names then i.e. the Bdes are per stock 17th/A B and C.)

Andy

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Actually - I do agree.

I think all brigades/regiments should be present - and maybe divisions should be broken into them.

I think battalions of significance should be present - but it is my preferred minimum unit.

I think unusual detachments that were successful should also be in the package - particularly early - and that is what you seem to have done. I dispute that these were not important later in the war - but I don't disagree with any of your stated principles - not a bit.

It had to happen!!

I agree, but been told it takes up too many slots.

This should be at Bde/Rgt level, with the ability to combine the units up to Divisions. So much of this war was fought at the mid-level until later years. Even then , say in Burma, Divs would be split and march in 1-2 Bdes and have the 3rd flown in to an airhead.

I would see the "special forces" performing a task similar to coastwatchers, being dropped or shipped in and, for a short time, send intel.
Add to the units mentioned already, Z Special, AIB etc

Maybe, the option should be to create them or not, then they get used, then can "re-sporn" after X days to signify training a new team.

Yes on the unit screen you can pull up a report shoing all the split units and current location if on map or date of arrival if still reinforcements

Andy

ORIGINAL: VSWG

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns




Hi Andy,

With all the mandatory disbandment’s in game now, is there some note on the unit info display to warn players of the disbandment date? If not players will need to memorize all the organizational changes, a feat I doubt can be achieved. I can already hear the complaints piling up, “I lost Noumea because the entire defending force disbanded right as the Japanese began their attack”.

Jim

Can answer this: You can see the disbandment date in the unit screen (something like 'withdraw in 550 days'). Btw., not really a problem for the Japanese player. If I remember correctly, only two IJA units are set to disband (but some SNLF are set to convert to Naval Garrison Units).

Excellent. Will we also be able to see what units can be combined to form a larger LCU?

For about the 1st 6 months of the game the scale is broadly Bde or Bn especially on the allied side but after that it decisively switches to Divisional

Difference of opinion,I would say its at Bde/Rgt level until the end of the Solomons campaign,  no biggie with the secenario editor available to make it possible to change things.

Let me try to give some examples to inform the picture.
 
Burma Corps/Command the allies recieve 2 Divisions broken down (some in India at start) - 1st Burma and 17th Indian split into 6 Bde Groups scattered over the map.
 
They also recieve I think its one Indpt Bn and about 15 or so Burmese Bns of varying strength ranging from 10 or so Burma Rifles Bns and some BAF Bns.
 
Both of the Divisions may be recombined and in fact the TOE upgrades (or in the case of 1st Burma a downgrade and renaming to 39th Training Div) require that the Divs be recombined otherwise the Bdes are stuck at 41 TOE's.
 
Malaya is all done at Bn or Bde levels some Bde (the 1st and 2nd Malaya Bdes are broken down to Bn groups)
 
III Corps both 11th and 9th Divs are broken down 11th Div into 3 Bde Groups and 9th Div into 2 Bde Gps and 3 Bn groups (I broke 12th Indian Bde down to Bns to allow for 2nd Argylls to be shown as it has higher training and therefore XP at start - at 50xp I think its the highest xp British unit on map at start)
 
These may also at the players choice be recombined in Malaya but my working assumption is that they wont be.
 
8th Aus Div exists and is a break down of 22 and 27th Aus Bdes in Malaya AND 23rd Bde in Darwin - 23rd Bde is an empty shell because its three operational bns are seperately shown as the Bird Bns and are set to disband in late 42. Aus replacements are tight so rebuilding the Division while possible if a sizable cadre is evacuated - e.g 2 Bird Bns and 1 Bde from Malaya its going to put a lot of strain on an already tight Australian replacement pool (a lot of Australian replacements are needed to convert Militia Divs and Bdes into operational units so while rebuilding an evacced 8th Div is possible it would mean leaving an extra Militia Div with the very weak Militia i.e. Home Guard level squads.
 
At the same time in India
 
14th Indian Div is shown at Bde level with its round out Bde not arriving until mid 42.
 
Pretty much every other Div arrives as a Division or is on map at start
3rd Indian Div - not shown as Divs 5 x Indpdt Chindit Bdes
4th Indian Div (1946)
5th Indian Div (1943)
6th Indian Div (Invasion Reinforcement only)
7th Indian Div (Heavily under strength but on map at start)
8th Indian Div (1945)
9th Indian Div (Malaya already discussed Bdes and Bns)
10th Indian Div (1945)
11th Indian Div (Malaya Bde level)
14th Indian Div (Bdes)
17th Indian Div (Bdes)
19th Indian Div (Understrength Div at start)
20th Indian Div (Understrength Div at start/1st quarter)
23rd Indian Div (Understrength Div at start/1st quarter)
25th Indian Div (Understrength Div at start/1st quarter)
26th Indian Div (Understrength Div at start/1st quarter)
34th Indian Div (Is ignored all 3 Bde Groups are on Ceylon but were used to reinforce other formations so Div is ignored)
36th Indian Div (arrives as Bdes last Bde follows disbandment of 267th Armoured and converts to Brit Div in 44)
39th Indian Div (ex 1st Burma Div converts to training Div)
44th Indian Para Div (1 understrength Bde at start - roundout arrives late 44)
 
In addition there are 4 Indian Armoured Bdes (1 Disbands in 43) several indpt Armoured Regts (I chose NOT to give Indian Divs integral Cav Regts so these are shown as seperate units)
 
2 Motorised Bdes (73rd - disbands early 43 and 268th)
 
British forces
2nd British Div (Arrives as a Div late 42)
5th British Div (Withdraws to ME in 43)
18th British Div (Arrives 41 as a Div does not disband main strategic choice for allied player in early war)
36th British Div (Arrives as an Indian Div converts in 44)
44th British Div (Invasion only reinforcements)
56th British Div (Invasion only reinforcements - even if arrives as an invasion reinforcement withdraws for Italy campaign)
70th British Div (Broken up for Chindits in late 42)
 
Add to that lot an Idpt Para Bde in 44, Lushai Bde, West and East Africans Divs and Bdes and India got very complicated very quickly as well.
 
Andy

I will say one more thing I just ran another test trying to play both sides of Malaya (very early stages lots of tweaks to do caveat caveat etc etc).

Its going to be fun

There are some IJA reinforcements that are part of the Kwantung Army that appear in Japan.  There's no way to move them to Manchuoko without changing their HQ.  Will this problem be rectified?

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

There are some IJA reinforcements that are part of the Kwantung Army that appear in Japan. There's no way to move them to Manchuoko without changing their HQ. Will this problem be rectified?

Yes.

Japanese reinforcements arrive were they were historically formed. China Expeditionary Army units in China, Kwantung Army units in Manchuria and everybody else in Japan, Korea or Formosa.

Thanks, Kereguelen. [:)]

I'm off on holiday travel to China.

To Harbin. In the winter. (Why? Because I'm an idiot.) I'll be gone about 2 weeks. Fortunately, only the last two days are in Harbin for the Ice Festival.

So please save any US land OOB questions until I return and thaw out.

In the meantime, feel free to pepper Andy Mac with questions on how he plans to handle the shape-shifting OOBs of the Commonwealth forces and the time will just fly by. Whenever I get frustrated trying to pin down the US Marine Corps' changes, I just take a quick glance at the issues Andy has been wrestling with, and i know better than to complain.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Have a great trip, but keep your camera put away when near gov't installations. [;)]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Well guys I hate to say it but I disagree.

There are plenty of slots to do what you want so modders feel free but while some Divs arrive as Bdes that can be recombined the ethos we are following is that Divisions are the base unit unless there is a good reason to split them i.e. initial deployments. Despite the new map scale AE is still a Divisional level game not a smaller unit one like UV - you may disagree with that premise and I am sure modders will move everything to Bde level but that is not what we are doing nor do I believe it to be appropriate - but feel free to disagree

The scale of the game is Divisional we only go lower when we have to for main combat formations - ok principal disagreement explained [:D][:D]

Well - this theater is so vast - it is hard to say anything that is true for all of it.

I myself think that divisions should be the scale in Siberia/Manchuria - and I think that Corps ("armies") of 2 or 3 divisions should be the rule for Chinese forces (which behave a good deal like other divisions do).

But out in the oceanic theater as such - this is mainly a game of regiments/brigades and battalions - with occasional utility for even smaller elements. A division scale landing is a pretty big deal - and too big a deal for more than a few locations even to handle.

Even so, there were divisions that always stayed together - so perhaps the best route would be to have those units appear in that form?

Also, since the engine remains as is, and since the design theory was it is a divisional engine, we might be wise to stay with that for AE?

But in theory, game theory, simulation theory, operations theory, if you are not talking some major campaign in China or on the mainland, there are not very many regimental sized units involved, and that should be the coin of the realm for a good simulation of the vast naval portion of this theater - particularly as the scale drops.

[:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


I'm off on holiday travel to China.

To Harbin. In the winter. (Why? Because I'm an idiot.) I'll be gone about 2 weeks. Fortunately, only the last two days are in Harbin for the Ice Festival.

So please save any US land OOB questions until I return and thaw out.

In the meantime, feel free to pepper Andy Mac with questions on how he plans to handle the shape-shifting OOBs of the Commonwealth forces and the time will just fly by. Whenever I get frustrated trying to pin down the US Marine Corps' changes, I just take a quick glance at the issues Andy has been wrestling with, and i know better than to complain.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[:D][:D][:D][:D]

Sorry Cid I agree with some of that.

China is Corps/Army based and this is correct

The option to split Divisions down still exists they just wont have the bespoke names.

Part of me wishes we could have set up an interactive ORBAT with each HQ having command points i.e. Div HQ has 15 points a Bde or RCT is say 3 to command, div arty is 1 and then have every major unit down to Bde for Inf and Bn level for every support unit.

But we need to deal witht the game as is and the Land mechanics as is and that is calibrated for Divisional combat - run a battle somewhere and Bdes and RCT sized units are combat inneffective too quickly.

So it should be divisions wherever possible.

I suspect modders will have options done quickly there are enough slots to probably do it at Bn level I dont think the game will handle it but it is an option !!!

As I said the new editor in many ways is the single best improvement we are making and that is saying something given what else we are changing.

Andy

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Well guys I hate to say it but I disagree.

There are plenty of slots to do what you want so modders feel free but while some Divs arrive as Bdes that can be recombined the ethos we are following is that Divisions are the base unit unless there is a good reason to split them i.e. initial deployments. Despite the new map scale AE is still a Divisional level game not a smaller unit one like UV - you may disagree with that premise and I am sure modders will move everything to Bde level but that is not what we are doing nor do I believe it to be appropriate - but feel free to disagree

The scale of the game is Divisional we only go lower when we have to for main combat formations - ok principal disagreement explained [:D][:D]

Well - this theater is so vast - it is hard to say anything that is true for all of it.

I myself think that divisions should be the scale in Siberia/Manchuria - and I think that Corps ("armies") of 2 or 3 divisions should be the rule for Chinese forces (which behave a good deal like other divisions do).

But out in the oceanic theater as such - this is mainly a game of regiments/brigades and battalions - with occasional utility for even smaller elements. A division scale landing is a pretty big deal - and too big a deal for more than a few locations even to handle.

Even so, there were divisions that always stayed together - so perhaps the best route would be to have those units appear in that form?

Also, since the engine remains as is, and since the design theory was it is a divisional engine, we might be wise to stay with that for AE?

But in theory, game theory, simulation theory, operations theory, if you are not talking some major campaign in China or on the mainland, there are not very many regimental sized units involved, and that should be the coin of the realm for a good simulation of the vast naval portion of this theater - particularly as the scale drops.

Sorry to throw couple questions your way, well not reallly.
 
Will there be allied guerilla forces in the DEI and Phillipines?  Judging from what I read above, it seems that they might be to small of a unit.  My arguement would be that although small they did tie down large numbers of troops in garrisons and pacification efforts.
 
How are the Chicom soldiers treated?  Will they be able to deal with both National and Japanese forces?
 
How about Thai Army and other Japanese puppet formations are they to be included?
 
Thanks again for all your work and the time you have taken to answer everyone's questions.
 
 

Are CD units going to be handled differently?

An example: My opponent (Japan) landed troops at PH taking a beating from CD guns. After his troops were landed, and even though he didn't take the base, he was able to unload an unlimited amount of supply without any repercussion from the CD guns.

Not specifically although units that have been defeated will still linger.

Chicom no different from stock

Thai and other puppets will be in

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Sorry to throw couple questions your way, well not reallly.

Will there be allied guerilla forces in the DEI and Phillipines?  Judging from what I read above, it seems that they might be to small of a unit.  My arguement would be that although small they did tie down large numbers of troops in garrisons and pacification efforts.

How are the Chicom soldiers treated?  Will they be able to deal with both National and Japanese forces?

How about Thai Army and other Japanese puppet formations are they to be included?

Thanks again for all your work and the time you have taken to answer everyone's questions.

Not sure on this one land team isnt doing anything on this one naval may be

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

Are CD units going to be handled differently?

An example: My opponent (Japan) landed troops at PH taking a beating from CD guns. After his troops were landed, and even though he didn't take the base, he was able to unload an unlimited amount of supply without any repercussion from the CD guns.

Will there be allied guerilla forces in the DEI and Phillipines? Judging from what I read above, it seems that they might be to small of a unit. My arguement would be that although small they did tie down large numbers of troops in garrisons and pacification efforts.

I doubt the DEI would warrant any anti-Japanese guerilla units (though I guess some Ozzies operated as such on Timor and/or Dutch New Guinea for an extended time). But the Philippines certainly had a pretty active anti-Japanese guerilla movement that provided good intel on Japanese dispositions and imposed a drain on Japanese resources. I

ORIGINAL: spence

Will there be allied guerilla forces in the DEI and Phillipines? Judging from what I read above, it seems that they might be to small of a unit. My arguement would be that although small they did tie down large numbers of troops in garrisons and pacification efforts.

I doubt the DEI would warrant any anti-Japanese guerilla units (though I guess some Ozzies operated as such on Timor and/or Dutch New Guinea for an extended time). But the Philippines certainly had a pretty active anti-Japanese guerilla movement that provided good intel on Japanese dispositions and imposed a drain on Japanese resources. I

Maybe Philippines would require small garrison requirement like Manchukuo, if dropping under, it'd trigger appearance of some guerilla battaillons. Might be too much for WitP engine..but...