DaBigBabes Beta errata

[Falken]

Hi JWE,

Thanks for the latest update V08.
Quick question, is there any requirement for a specific Beta patch version, or can I still use it with the latest official release?

Thanks again,

[oldman45]

The 10th AF HQ should come through Capetown instead of Aden. The came on a convoy that shipped out of Charleston and made some stops including Capetown prior to going to India.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Falken
Hi JWE,

Thanks for the latest update V08.
Quick question, is there any requirement for a specific Beta patch version, or can I still use it with the latest official release?

Thanks again,

BabesLite can be used with any official release or beta patch. Using the latest is generally a good idea, in any case. [;)]

[RevRick]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Hi Tijanski.
The people here know the game and the scenarios very well. Have nothing to add to their take on things. These people know what's up and are even driving this to greater heights.

There is no magic, or special code for Babes. Babes uses the regular stock code and is not different. The code "allows" things that stock doesn't use, but Babes does. No magic, just some thought. So the data is different.

Don't know or care about what people complain about on the main forum. Hundreds of people have downloaded and play Babes; thousands of people have downloaded and play stock, without any issues. These hundreds and thousands do not post. The 6 or 7 screaming whiners (out of thousands) are the majority of posters so you will get a very skewed view of the game from these forums.

The game is not broken. If you believe that nonsense, then you should go elsewhere. If you like the game, then listen to what the actual players are saying. I recommed, highly, that you get a PBEM partner for one of the short scenarios and play it. Once you do that, you will be in a much better position to understand all the self-absorbed, anal-retentive, wet owl manure that appears on the main forum.

Ciao. John

John, you owe me a keyboard for that line. I had just sipped a mouthful of coffee. And you're lucky it's just the keyboard... the screen isn't much farther away!!!

Yoiks, and away!!!!

[Falken]

Hi JWE,

I had 2 games going, 1 wth the ugprade BabesLite V08, and one was with BigBabes V04.
Being the moronic self that I am, I have accidently deleted my Save game, and my backup for the DBB V04 game (don't ask,, it's pretty embarassing already... ).

Anyway, quick 2 questions before I get too far in the DBB re-start. since Bableslite went through a small upgrade from V07 to V08, is the same about to happen to V04 of DBB, and if so, should I wait, or will I be able to upgrade cleanly from V04 by answering "Y" to the "Update Database Changes" when it first loads?

Second, I've noticed that with both my games, when I ugprade to the latest Beta, an UpdateReport file is created in the main SAVE directory, which seems to incidate changes that the beta has made to some of the units. Is this ok? and is there anything to worry about? BTW (i've tried the new BETA on other official scenarios, and the same type of UpdateReport is generated, but I just want to make sure that this is expected, and normal).

thanks
also, I will now backup my games on a mem stick as well (should have done that to begin with.... ugh... rookie mistake)

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: stuman

Thanks for the warning regarding possible problems with off-map TFs - I intended to use this feature to "make appear" the German Armed Merchant Raiders Thor and Michel, which both met their fate in the PTO.

That sounds interesting. Would you mind sharing when/if you get those modded ?

Np - just drop me a PM with your mail address.

Here's a teaser:

Just curious. Did you ever get those modded? If you did, would you mine sharing the information? THank you.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Falken
Hi JWE,

I had 2 games going, 1 wth the ugprade BabesLite V08, and one was with BigBabes V04.
Being the moronic self that I am, I have accidently deleted my Save game, and my backup for the DBB V04 game (don't ask,, it's pretty embarassing already... ).

Anyway, quick 2 questions before I get too far in the DBB re-start. since Bableslite went through a small upgrade from V07 to V08, is the same about to happen to V04 of DBB, and if so, should I wait, or will I be able to upgrade cleanly from V04 by answering "Y" to the "Update Database Changes" when it first loads?

No, not for a while. It will be mostly nits and grits stuff and won't have any effect on gameplay. It should update cleanly to ongoing games in any case .

Second, I've noticed that with both my games, when I ugprade to the latest Beta, an UpdateReport file is created in the main SAVE directory, which seems to incidate changes that the beta has made to some of the units. Is this ok? and is there anything to worry about? BTW (i've tried the new BETA on other official scenarios, and the same type of UpdateReport is generated, but I just want to make sure that this is expected, and normal).

thanks
also, I will now backup my games on a mem stick as well (should have done that to begin with.... ugh... rookie mistake)

Yep. Expected and normal.

[JWE]

Found a couple minor burps in some of the Japanese Penetration values. No big deal, since the JP 6" guns can penetrate the majority of Brit 6" CLs, but not a Brooklyn, now. What is does do, though, is allow the little weenie 14cm's a nominal belt penetration of Ontarios, Swiftsures, and Fijis (belt = 90), and gives an enhanced random for penetration of Atlantas (belt = 93). Still can't do squat against a Brooklyn, Southampton, or Edinburgh, though. The true 6"ers (15cm) can now penetrate the belt on everything but a Brooklyn at nominal engagement ranges.

Was a math error (my bad) and the fix will look like this:
15.5cm/60 3YT, Pen was 222, should be 231.
15cm/50 41YT (Single), Pen was 86, should be 114.
15cm/50 41YT (Twin), Pen was 86, should be 114.
14cm/50 3YT (All), Pen was 86, should be 91.

One other teensy change that don't do squat, but should get included just to make things uniform:
12cm/45 10YT, Pen was 47, should be 52.
12cm/45 3YT, Pen was 47, should be 52.

These will get updated in Babes and BabesLite, but thought ya'll might want to see it and tweak it your own selves, early.

Once again, everything was cranked through Nathan Oakun's program (uniformity and consistency), and got some additional help from the wonderful people at NavWeaps.com.

[oldman45]

Should the CD guns also be upgraded?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: oldman45
Should the CD guns also be upgraded?

Good question. Not looking to update equivalent CD guns at this time, though. The CD fire thingy is in a different combat module, so not sure of how appropriate the NavCom data is to CD guns.

There seem to be some blivets in the defensive CD fire area, so that's something we will be looking at next. Don't want to dork with it in the meantime, since we won't know what we are doing yet. Best to leave CDs as they are just now. But we will be smiling and dialing on this particular aspect.

Ciao. [:)]

[JWE]

Woof !! Good thing we waited. Finding some very interesting things, and getting a handle on CD vs Nav vs DP vs AA stats as a function of the different combat modules. Couple things are in the "can't get there from here" arena, but think that "almost" everything can get unified.

Biggest witch is the DP guns, since their stats have to work within both the AAA and NavCom combat modes. Configuring for AAA tends to skew the NavCom part, but there aren't too many of these and they tend to be in the smaller calibers (3 to 5 inch), so configuring for AAA and letting NavCom fall where it may seems to be a reasonable compromise. True CD guns, however, can be tweaked in accord with the CD fire mode and we are getting very close to having a satisfactory algorithm.

Yeah, woof !! Ciao.

[vettim89]

To the team I have a couple of quick questions

1. It seems that the mod is continueing to evolve. Just wondering where the current availabel versions fall vs some of the most recently discussed changes. If I downloaded the version on the links, how far back does that go as far as changes?

2. Are the changes discussed as far as cargo capacity in the economic thread going to become part of the DaBabes mod universally or is that just for Economic Mods?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: vettim89
To the team I have a couple of quick questions

1. It seems that the mod is continueing to evolve. Just wondering where the current availabel versions fall vs some of the most recently discussed changes. If I downloaded the version on the links, how far back does that go as far as changes?

Current versions:
DaBigBabes v04 - 10/29/10
BabesLite v08 - 03/02/11
have all the fundamental changes. They all have the sub split-tubes, the AAA tweaks, the ASW tweaks, everything. These were also in BabesLite v07 - 10/29/10. The latest BabesLite is just a collection of typo corrections, error fixes, that sort of thing.

It's not actually evolving any more, just getting some data elements working more smoothly together. I believe we have a good handle on what can and cannot be easily and seamlessly updated. These things include updates to "certain" data fields in the Device file and "certain" data fields in the Class file. Those are the only data fields that will be tweaked if we come up with something worth doing for CD guns. We try and post any tweaks we find, in real time, so people can make the changes themselves instead of waiting for an update. Changes made to most of the Device data fields update cleanly into ongoing games, so there will be no issue.

2. Are the changes discussed as far as cargo capacity in the economic thread going to become part of the DaBabes mod universally or is that just for Economic Mods?

They are primarily for Spidey's econ mod. We will offer an alternative Class file that includes these, so people who want to get gnarly can play it. But it will be an alternative Class file (something like wpc028alt.dat). Nominal Babes will still use the regular Class file with the regular cargo caps.

Unfortunately, the cargo cap field is NOT one of those that seamlessly update to ongoing games; a ship in mid ocean carrying 5000 tons of stuff would probably have to barf if its cargo cap was reduced to 3000. So it's a restart kinda thing. Thought having alternative files would be a better approach than just arbitrarily changing cargo caps.

Ciao.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

[SNIP]

Just curious. Did you ever get those modded? If you did, would you mine sharing the information? THank you.

Yes, I have included Michel and Thor in my personal mod. They do appear as TFs in the Indian Ocean, since off-base movement seems to be Allies only.

I gladly share them with anyone interested - just drop me a PM with your email address.

For the records - other changes include:
- added sailing ship Pamir (NZ war prize)
- changed/added (dot) bases in Australia/PNG/Solomons area (locations used as PT bases like Tufi, airbases like Gusap, invasion sites like Wide Bay etc.), downsizing of potential base sizes (to slow ops / increase shipping bottleneck)
- teleported units / reinforcements now appear in CONUS / off-map (more strain on shipping), minor OOB changes and additions (8th Mil. District + attached units)
- crude and experimental "economic mod" in order to model Allied shoestring conditions at the beginning and rising production over time: many Allied factories / ressources start at 50%-66% damaged, need to import ressources from map / off-map areas

[Don Bowen]

Love to see a list of your new bases (and their map locations)....

[JWE]

Me too.

Have seen a lot of neat suggestions and am considering a DBB Scen030 (Spidey, John, if this number conflicts, please scream). It will have the map/pwhex tweaks done for the DEI scen, the bases that it allows (Subic, Pahat, Kluong, etc..), the redistribution of some LCU at-start locations to populate those bases. Also looking very closely at Spidey and LST's early war factory/resource ramp up and some of their dot bases. Will likely stick the reduced cargo caps in this one.

Don't want to tweak the economy stuff, don't really what I'm doing there, so I'll leave that to Spidey. But a DBB Scen030 might be a real nasty gut-check kinda logistical nightmare for both sides, without getting too far from the original. Like a training wheels scenario for Spidey's. Ya'll think this would be worthwhile?

[LargeSlowTarget]

75/123 Bathurst I. > former Bathurst I. at 76/123 now Melville I.
69/124 Mungalalu-Truscott
10/124 Drysdale Mission+
75/125 Batchelor
76/127 Pine Creek-MacDonald
81/127 Millingimbi
91/129 Bomaga
84/108 Kebar
85/110 Moemi
87/110 Western Biak
88/110 Mokmer > not the correct location according to map art, but had to compromise with next base
87/111 Owi / Mios Woendi > former Biak I.
88/112 Yapen
100/119 Manus I. > former Manus at 101/119 now Los Neros I.
105/126 Open Bay
106/126 Wide Bay
98/124 Gusap > moved Madang to 98/122 and Hansa Bay to 97/121 in order to maintain approx. distance Gusap-Madang
99/128 Morobe
98/129 Kokoda+
99/130 Dobadura#
100/130 Oro Bay / Ponagi
100/131 Tufi / Wanigela
101/132 Raba-Raba*
100/133 Bona-Bona*
99/132 Hood Point
102/134 Samarai I.
111/135 Vangunu > represents Segi Pt. air strip / Viru Harbor / Wickham Anchorage

Sources: Morison and other books, http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ and various other websites, Google Earth

+ prewar air strips > size (1/0) >> Kokoda 100% damaged
# would like to suppress the PM-Buna trail through this hex but this is beyond the editor
* not historic sites, but potentially so > "stepping stones" for barge traffic from PM to Milne

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Me too.

Have seen a lot of neat suggestions and am considering a DBB Scen030 (Spidey, John, if this number conflicts, please scream). It will have the map/pwhex tweaks done for the DEI scen, the bases that it allows (Subic, Pahat, Kluong, etc..), the redistribution of some LCU at-start locations to populate those bases. Also looking very closely at Spidey and LST's early war factory/resource ramp up and some of their dot bases. Will likely stick the reduced cargo caps in this one.

Don't want to tweak the economy stuff, don't really what I'm doing there, so I'll leave that to Spidey. But a DBB Scen030 might be a real nasty gut-check kinda logistical nightmare for both sides, without getting too far from the original. Like a training wheels scenario for Spidey's. Ya'll think this would be worthwhile?

Definitely worthwhile...

witpqs and I have started up our test-drive of the mod... darby seems to have some positive feedback so far even though the mod isn't designed for AI play...although I think he is doing a H2H.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

75/123 Bathurst I. > former Bathurst I. at 76/123 now Melville I.
69/124 Mungalalu-Truscott
10/124 Drysdale Mission+
75/125 Batchelor
76/127 Pine Creek-MacDonald
81/127 Millingimbi
91/129 Bomaga
84/108 Kebar
85/110 Moemi
87/110 Western Biak
88/110 Mokmer > not the correct location according to map art, but had to compromise with next base
87/111 Owi / Mios Woendi > former Biak I.
88/112 Yapen
100/119 Manus I. > former Manus at 101/119 now Los Neros I.
105/126 Open Bay
106/126 Wide Bay
98/124 Gusap > moved Madang to 98/122 and Hansa Bay to 97/121 in order to maintain approx. distance Gusap-Madang
99/128 Morobe
98/129 Kokoda+
99/130 Dobadura#
100/130 Oro Bay / Ponagi
100/131 Tufi / Wanigela
101/132 Raba-Raba*
100/133 Bona-Bona*
99/132 Hood Point
102/134 Samarai I.
111/135 Vangunu > represents Segi Pt. air strip / Viru Harbor / Wickham Anchorage

Sources: Morison and other books, http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ and various other websites, Google Earth

+ prewar air strips > size (1/0) >> Kokoda 100% damaged
# would like to suppress the PM-Buna trail through this hex but this is beyond the editor
* not historic sites, but potentially so > "stepping stones" for barge traffic from PM to Milne

IIRC AB designed Buna to include Dobadura...send me a PM and I'll talk to you about the trail hex.

[Don Bowen]

10/124 Drysdale Mission+


????? 10/124 does not look right. Is it 70/124??