Matrix Games Forums

Another art graph about Keskudon Character systems special groups
Adding it to OP.

Community Poll:
What is better to explain strengths/weaknesses of racial Character system :
- Leadership Portfolio Graph (as in OP done for Gizureans, Quameno, Dlakar, Archei, Zadaj, Laaran, Yereni etc)
- Or Art guides like Keskudon / Ketarov + Lore texts attached, hinting on bonuses/strength in lore form in lore text articles, gathered in pedia?

I can't maintain doing both - thats a huge amount of work. LPGs are very complex, take alot of time to do, and bit dry, and confusing, so i am consider to focus on lore articles with writers that joined this project recently, and do such art splashes as Keskudon's above, styled differently for different races.
I would like to hear player's oppinions on this matter. Cheers.

GREAT WORK, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Yesterday I had not much time but now I start playing the first game with the new and great Version 6.
OHHHH YEEEAAAHHH ))

@Hawkeye_BF You are wellcome! you are wllcome to share your experience/feelings/screenshots if you will desire to do so, player's feedback and feelings with all added immersion stuff are very interesting to me as main mod dev

Please, if anyone thinks that removal of LPG (those complex graphs at OP) graphs, and making Lore articles and Graphs like those of Keskudon and Ketarov instead of them is bad idea - i would be interested to hear them. For now the intention is not to continue with them (they are complex, confusing... and take alot of effort to make), and i will do lore articles together with new writer team, and will do such boards as Keskudon and Ketarov example for each race instead of LPGs.

I have a short question:

Could it be that the Construction Speed of Mines and Ship is faster???
And if the speed is faster... why???

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

I have a short question:

Could it be that the Construction Speed of Mines and Ship is faster???
And if the speed is faster... why???

Reason 1. It depends which race you play. Certain Races have serious construction speed bonuses (there are few). There are very few races (very very few) that have rapid constructions bonuses (Only one which comes to my mind is Archei). This is part of design and balance.

Reason 2. Second thing which comes to my mind is that Icemanias mod had mistake in constructions speeds, and homeworld planets were designed to have +33% constructions speed compared to vanilla, but instead, due to mistake, they built things 33% slower. So if you will compare this to vanilla, this will be +33% increase, and if you compare it to "mistake" setup which is in untocuhed AI mod (which is defenitely mistake) it will be andother +33% or so. Perhaps this is how it feels in comparison. This is intended feature and current state is correct and balanced (before oceanic race had -25% production speed on its native planet, and somewhat like 200% speed on volcanic which is , as you understand from simple logic, is bad ) .

I am not sure which race you play, but perhaps you have 2 reasons combined, and while each one is somewhat not so noticeable, if combined could be something that will make you feel the difference. Or you are playing Archei. Or you playing race which leaders have construction speed bonuses combined with innate small construction speed bonus (consider it equal to Reason 1)

AHhh ok I understand, thank you very much ))

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

AHhh ok I understand, thank you very much ))

NP, and you are wellcome!
Please note that the consequences of reason 2 building on not native planets with native population could make construction times very long, esp compared to un-corrected AI mod construction speeds which had +150-200% speeds for completely incompatible planets (ie lavas races on ice planets, desert races on ocean planets etc),
So now that change could feel also drastic, to opposite direction.
also Archei are very special case, and Napoar and Veey too, since they have different laws about planet type construction speeds.

Another Race Group chart guide:
Naxxilians - adding to OP. Later all of them, when they will be numerous, will be added as entries in pedia / or just added to racial pedia entry.

Hello Blackstork! 1rst of all id like to tell you great job man! :O

I havent had time to try it out extensively yet, but back in shadows I was solo modding this game and i know how much work it is to do what you do now.

That being said I'd stick with the Art Guide so that you save your precious time, honestly. Although i have a suggestion, why not just be very transparent and just add something along those lines:

Race XXX

family xx:
xx% chance for new Admiral to get :
-% x trait etc
-% x trait
etc..

something like that would work IMHO and is simple to do as you already somehow do it when you create characters.

Personally, I Think the art guides are far more appealing with the lore texts as a short guide to strengths and bonuses. The LPG's are complex and, even though they give a lot of info once you understand the charts / graphs, I find the lore's get me involved in the playing of that Race (I have a very active imagination)

Great work with A.6 Can't get enough of Beyond Extended.

ORIGINAL: joproulx99

Hello Blackstork! 1rst of all id like to tell you great job man! :O

I havent had time to try it out extensively yet, but back in shadows I was solo modding this game and i know how much work it is to do what you do now.

That being said I'd stick with the Art Guide so that you save your precious time, honestly. Although i have a suggestion, why not just be very transparent and just add something along those lines:

Race XXX

family xx:
xx% chance for new Admiral to get :
-% x trait etc
-% x trait
etc..

something like that would work IMHO and is simple to do as you already somehow do it when you create characters.

1st of all thanks alot!
This could be even more extensive work.... Even more than it takes to make LPGs, sadly... So there is way to be somewhat mechanics-oriented in short form (the shortest way is LPGs), or just hint things in lore form, and let the player reveal numbers, chances and etc. themselves. Doing thing you suggested will need huge double work which i better invest into further advancement on project, and wont be immersive and so useful for half of players who wont dig such huge pile of numbers (it is , believe me ). I could check some option with our mod programmer ergie, but still, i dont think it will matter much, because it will provide huge amounts of hard to digest data. I prefer to do it "pretty art way" , and leave some revealing/research to player.

@hezamajeza
I glad to hear it, i thought same way. Tho graphs are cool and more informative, they are just dry, confusing new players who are not familiar with them, and take alot time to do.
By the way Lore descriptions (articles) will have clear hints on what you should expect from race and its special groups.
Also, thanks ... aaaand more to come!

Something about Corporate Nationalism, its abit old memory here but from what i remember there was a big problem with it and it was the fact that it was never meant to be anything more then a short term government...its going to deplete the civilians from thier money at some point and they will run dry of founds to buy anything destroying the economy...i would not be surprised that it as never been 'fixed' so the AI know to change government to not stick with it(sorry if im wrong).

I remember in vanilla that ketarov and humans were rarely competitive when they started and stayed C. N.

Idk if its still the case id suggest that you remove it completly lol, though its no big deal to me as with 50(?)races to play against, i can live with a few factions underperforming in some circumstances because of the AI not being able to adapt but still that was my 2c i guess

BTW im saying all this because I think that its impossible to balance a race around this government no matter how you try, because if you over buff them to try to compensate somehow...a revolution from AI spy etc will lead to huge imbalances lol.

Hope it was helpful thoughts anyhow

ORIGINAL: joproulx99

Something about Corporate Nationalism, its abit old memory here but from what i remember there was a big problem with it and it was the fact that it was never meant to be anything more then a short term government...its going to deplete the civilians from thier money at some point and they will run dry of founds to buy anything destroying the economy...i would not be surprised that it as never been 'fixed' so the AI know to change government to not stick with it(sorry if im wrong).

I remember in vanilla that ketarov and humans were rarely competitive when they started and stayed C. N.

Idk if its still the case id suggest that you remove it completly lol, though its no big deal to me as with 50(?)races to play against, i can live with a few factions underperforming in some circumstances because of the AI not being able to adapt but still that was my 2c i guess

BTW im saying all this because I think that its impossible to balance a race around this government no matter how you try, because if you over buff them to try to compensate somehow...a revolution from AI spy etc will lead to huge imbalances lol.

Hope it was helpful thoughts anyhow

Thank You, i think i will do the trick with creating something similar, and not using the old one.
Then Ketarovs will work well.
Thanks for the idea, instead of trying to break head with matching all to old CN, i will create new CN.

Continuing on art-charts :
Dhayut

added to OP.

PS. Seems i have some Dark Forces bias, 4 boards for them, none for others
They gave me cookies and here i am, on the dark side :V

Yereni
adding this to LPG.
LPGs will be removed at some point.
Again if someone thingsk that LPGs are must have i would like to hear your reasoning

Caleph group art loreboard. (i will call them GALs in difference from LPGs)
their entry in OP updated with their GAL.

And.... i will add this to gameplay tips.... there is the secret.... elite schools scientiests so powerful compared to normal ones (but SPECIALIZED!!!! while normals not), so there are alot of reasons to dismiss normal sceintiests because you may pop your scientiest capacity, while doing this you may open oportunity for one of school-bound scientiests to emerge to aid you. Or lizard in hands , or dragon in the sky, your choice.

And remainder: do not forget to read my gameplay tips and comments in the OP. All except Ketarov's (they will get some repolish soon) one are valid and could be useful to you in your journeys.

Also colonized/conquered Caleph population as non-fighter user race? even got Thacalis admiral? Leave guns for your fluffies, and go design new fighter fleet, those Caleps will make it run well!

Please note that there is mistake in naming of Mortalen and Sluken race-specific Soundtrack files (they been not renamed from their original names), so they wont replace other race files, and wont be replaced by them if you follow the installation instructions for soundtracks. I will correct it in A.61 - Just note that if you play Mortalen - be sure you delete other race's 6 racial files from Theme/Sounds/Music files prior to installation, and remove those 6 mortalen tracks when you switch your race.
Other option to fix this quickly on your side is to rename them to:
Race01.mp3 ..... Race06.mp3 file names, in fashion of other racial soundtracks . This will fix the problem completely. Thanks

Archei GAL

added to OP. Remember to read tips/remarks there too and check updated in A.6 in-game pedias which contain expanded info.
Those guys could have some very interesting and unique strategies. It's not on the surface, but perhaps some pros/experienced players could find what special about those and how differently they could be played. I am really satisfied with what mod acheived with them. I hope players find the way i am talking about, it's not that hard to guess, because, alas its most optimal style to play as Archei.

Let's continue with the art charts and lore pages.

I'm all settled in at my new place now, so can get working fast Blackstork.