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If thinking about an invasion of Egypt from the Red Sea, Italy should check the CW defences in the region first.

IMO sailing a cruiser out (either with a division or to pick up a division from a broken-down corps in Italian East Africa) should occur only if the CW is setup such that reacting to the move would open a gap somewhere else where Italy could land and stay ashore.

(Personally speaking, when I am playing the CW usually I stick an Egyptian TERR unit in Cairo - admittedly usually just to cover against a march up from Ethiopia/Eritrea - but it would put paid to an invasion next door.)

ORIGINAL: composer99

If thinking about an invasion of Egypt from the Red Sea, Italy should check the CW defences in the region first.

IMO sailing a cruiser out (either with a division or to pick up a division from a broken-down corps in Italian East Africa) should occur only if the CW is setup such that reacting to the move would open a gap somewhere else where Italy could land and stay ashore.

(Personally speaking, when I am playing the CW usually I stick an Egyptian TERR unit in Cairo - admittedly usually just to cover against a march up from Ethiopia/Eritrea - but it would put paid to an invasion next door.)

But only if you are playing with the optional rule Territorials. Without them, the Commonwealth (and Italy) have fewer land units to work with in Africa.

Yes, playing without Territorials makes a threatened invasion of Egypt via the Red Sea more viable.

Italy sets up and moves before the CW.

Italy could use the Light cruiser Taranto (1,8,0,0,5/3). This is the only Italian SCS with a range of 3 at start up.

Note: that Steve is not moving a Land unit with the Transport or Light cruiser Taranto because of rule 11.11.4 Neutral major powers.

But this puts Italy's Transport or Light cruiser Taranto in Suez because you use one point or range for Into and out of port.

This is not suggested due to stacking:
Prewar naval move (or Sep/Oct turn ~ 1st Axis Impulse):
Transport or Light cruiser Taranto sails from the major port of Tranto, Italy
> Italian Coast sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)
> Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)
> To the minor port of Suez (1 Range and 1 Movement).

Total 3 Range points and 3 Movement points.


Italy cannot end the impulse in Suez if any type of CW ship is in Suez because of rule 18.2 Not co-operating.

After Italy sets up and they leave a Transport or Light cruiser Taranto in Suez.
If the CW sets up any ship in Suez the Transport or Light cruiser Taranto is destroyed due to stacking (see below 18.2 Not co-operating) after set up is complete.
Or if you read the rule as having to exceeding stacking just put more CW ships in Suez.

If there are not any CW ships in Suez:
Sep/Oct turn ~ 1st Axis Impulse (or Sep/Oct turn ~ 2nd Axis Impulse):
Transport or Light cruiser Taranto sails from the minor port of Suez
> Red Sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)
> To the minor port of Asmara Ethiopia (1 Range and 1 Movement).

Total 2 Range points and 2 Movement points.


Or you could play it safe and not have to worry about stacking:
Prewar naval move (or Sep/Oct turn ~ 1st Axis Impulse):
Transport or Light cruiser Taranto sails from the major port of Tranto, Italy
> Italian Coast sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)
> Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)

Total 2 Range points and 2 Movement points.

Sep/Oct turn ~ 1st Axis Impulse (or Sep/Oct turn ~ 2nd Axis Impulse):
Transport or Light cruiser Taranto sails from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone
> To the minor port of Suez (1 Range and 1 Movement).
> Red Sea zone (1 Range and 1 Movement)
> To the minor port of Asmara Ethiopia (1 Range and 1 Movement).

Total 3 Range points and 3 Movement points.


An attempt by the Italians to invade Suez telegraphs their intentions.

If Italy chooses to invade on the Sep/Oct turn during the:
3rd Axis Impulse they have to do it with free set up or a prewar move or this is countered by sending more CW Land units.
4th Axis Impulse they have to have a Transport or the Light cruiser Taranto in the minor port of Asmara Ethiopia on the 3rd Axis Impulse and can be countered by the CW DoWing Italy on that impulse.


While this could be used as a feint to lure the CW commit Land units to me it really has little strategic importance.

11.4 Naval movement
How far can units move?
A unit must stop moving when you have spent its entire movement allowance or it has reached the limit of its range, whichever happens first.
You spend 1 point of a unit’s range:
* For each sea area and port it moves into.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s movement allowance:
* For each sea area and port it moves into;
* If it starts the movement out of supply;
* If it starts the impulse in a port with naval units controlled by another major power; and
* For each point of the (unmodified) search number of the section you put the unit into.

Into and out of port
When you move a unit out of a port, you must spend its first point to move it into a surrounding sea area (e.g. naval units in Amsterdam must move directly into the North Sea).

There are three special cases:
* Although Kiel is a coastal hex on the Baltic Sea, you can move naval units directly to Kiel from the North Sea and vice versa.
* Although Suez is a coastal hex on the Red Sea, you can move naval units directly to Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean and vice versa.
* Although Panama City is a coastal hex on the Gulf of Mexico, you can move naval units directly to Panama from the Caribbean, and vice versa provided the Panama Canal is not closed to you.

Similarly, a naval unit can only move into a port from the surrounding sea area. It could continue moving but, if it ends the naval move in port, turn it face-down (for convoy points, use a “CP used” marker instead).


11.11.4 Neutral major powers
You can only move a land unit of a neutral major power into:
* A hex it controls; or
* A hex controlled by one of its aligned minor countries; or
* A hex in a minor country it is at war with.

The only exception is the US (see 13.3.2 US entry options, option 7 Occupy Greenland & Iceland & option 44 US occupies Northern Ireland).

18.2 Not co-operating
Units that don’t co-operate cannot:
1. Stack in the same hex, at any time that stacking limits apply; or
2. Transport each other’s units; or
3. Draw supply from a source controlled by the other; or
4. Reorganise each other; or
5. Be committed to any combat or mission that the other unit is, or will be, involved in this step. This doesn’t apply to naval air or naval air interception missions.

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
* It started the step there; or
* It started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

If thinking about an invasion of Egypt from the Red Sea, Italy should check the CW defences in the region first.

IMO sailing a cruiser out (either with a division or to pick up a division from a broken-down corps in Italian East Africa) should occur only if the CW is setup such that reacting to the move would open a gap somewhere else where Italy could land and stay ashore.

(Personally speaking, when I am playing the CW usually I stick an Egyptian TERR unit in Cairo - admittedly usually just to cover against a march up from Ethiopia/Eritrea - but it would put paid to an invasion next door.)

But only if you are playing with the optional rule Territorials. Without them, the Commonwealth (and Italy) have fewer land units to work with in Africa.

But since MWiF has the full global map, it's like playing with Africa in Flames, so I''d think Territorials would be a recommended option.

Italian units can not enter the Suez port while neutral. They can sail through the canal but not enter the port.



RAW: 9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with
at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.
Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor
country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.
A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18.)

Impulse 1 : CA with Div to Red Sea

Impulse 2 : CW cannot DoW Italy, but may be forced to take a Combined, to do something about this.

Impulse 3 : DoW and invade an empty hex with Surprise. Un-ZOC'd hex or if no ZOC on Surprise option, invasion is an Auto.

It would be strange to play with Divs but without Territorials though, IMO.

If no DoW in Impulse 3 then if there are Italian units (especially TRS) east of the Suez canal, CW almost HAS to DoW Italy in Impulse 4. Alternately if CW reacts to the threat in Impulse 2, then Italy can remain neutral and return the CA to Italy in Impulse 3.

An Italian light cruiser (range 3 / speed 5 = Taranto;) could only make the 2 box of the Red Sea from Italy, giving the notional a factor. Trickier delayed re-basing / re-org schemes using Tripoli are possible though.

Later in the war the way to take Aden is to clear the Suez Canal with land units on a summer turn, immediately sail a CA + Division through the Canal, DOW Yemen and land there, then walk into Aden if the CW has nothing to react to the landing in Aden. The Royal Navy is more likely to be using Bombay as a base, for secure land access to oil and supply. Makes a good base for the Japanese or Italians though. In 1939 the Italians would be better off trying for a port in the Levant in an eastward focused Italian strategy.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

An Italian light cruiser (range 3 / speed 5 = Taranto;) could only make the 2 box of the Red Sea from Italy, giving the notional a factor. Trickier delayed re-basing / re-org schemes using Tripoli are possible though.

Later in the war the way to take Aden is to clear the Suez Canal with land units on a summer turn, immediately sail a CA + Division through the Canal, DOW Yemen and land there, then walk into Aden if the CW has nothing to react to the landing in Aden. The Royal Navy is more likely to be using Bombay as a base, for secure land access to oil and supply. Makes a good base for the Japanese or Italians though. In 1939 the Italians would be better off trying for a port in the Levant in an eastward focused Italian strategy.

Italy also has a 4-3 TRS, so if you are not playing with the Amphibious rules, it could reach the 1 section box of the Red Sea and invade with a 5-4 Infantry. That's a very risky attack, but the rewards might be great.

If you move the TRS to the Red Sea in the first impulse, then in the third you could move another TRS to the Eastern Med, forcing the Commonwealth to defend a lot of hexes in Egypt. Unless I am wrong, the Commonwealth would need 3 corps sized units to cover all the ports with ZOCs. Even then the Italian forces in Libya would be unopposed when they walk into Egypt.

A really aggressive Italian player, willing to run a lot of risks, could force a nervous Commonwealth player to devote the first few Allied impulses of the game to moving units in the Mediterranean, leaving Germany unfettered to do whatever it likes in Europe. As always, this all depends on what random units both sides draw and where they set up their units.

With two Italian TRS at sea I would declare war on Italy and try to sink them during the surprise. The one in the Red Sea is more or less doomed regardless of combat result.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

The desert hex east of Cairo has two all-sea hexsides on the Red Sea (the Gulf of Suez technically). So it can be invaded from the Red Sea. Suez itself does not have an all-sea hexside - it has two hexsides on the Suez Canal instead.

Isnt an all-sea hexside those with a dot in middle?

ORIGINAL: Orm
Italian units can not enter the Suez port while neutral. They can sail through the canal but not enter the port.


RAW: 9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with
at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.
Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor
country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.
A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18.)

That is what I said in my post #357 but Steve says different in his post #359.

There are three special cases:
* Although Kiel is a coastal hex on the Baltic Sea, you can move naval units directly to Kiel from the North Sea and vice versa.
* Although Suez is a coastal hex on the Red Sea, you can move naval units directly to Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean and vice versa.
* Although Panama City is a coastal hex on the Gulf of Mexico, you can move naval units directly to Panama from the Caribbean, and vice versa provided the Panama Canal is not closed to you.

You move from the minor port of Suez to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.

You move from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone to the minor port of Suez.


You do not move from the Red Sea zone to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.

You do not move from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone to the Red Sea zone.



You have to enter and pay range and movement points to enter the minor port of Suez.

Then you can go from the minor port of Suez to either the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone or the Red Sea zone.

It would take a 4 range to move from a port in Italy to the Read Sea zone.

1 to leave port and enter the Italian Coast sea zone.
1 to enter the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone from the Italian Coast sea zone.
1 to enter the minor port of Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.
1 to leave the minor port of Suez and enter the Red Sea zone.

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Orm
Italian units can not enter the Suez port while neutral. They can sail through the canal but not enter the port.


RAW: 9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with
at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.
Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor
country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.
A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18.)

That is what I said in my post #357 but Steve says different in his post #359.

There are three special cases:
* Although Kiel is a coastal hex on the Baltic Sea, you can move naval units directly to Kiel from the North Sea and vice versa.
* Although Suez is a coastal hex on the Red Sea, you can move naval units directly to Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean and vice versa.
* Although Panama City is a coastal hex on the Gulf of Mexico, you can move naval units directly to Panama from the Caribbean, and vice versa provided the Panama Canal is not closed to you.

You move from the minor port of Suez to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.

You move from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone to the minor port of Suez.


You do not move from the Red Sea zone to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.

You do not move from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone to the Red Sea zone.



You have to enter and pay range and movement points to enter the minor port of Suez.

Then you can go from the minor port of Suez to either the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone or the Red Sea zone.

It would take a 4 range to move from a port in Italy to the Read Sea zone.

1 to leave port and enter the Italian Coast sea zone.
1 to enter the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone from the Italian Coast sea zone.
1 to enter the minor port of Suez from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone.
1 to leave the minor port of Suez and enter the Red Sea zone.

You do not have to stop in the port of Suez to pass through the Suez Canal. A naval unit simply moves from the Eastern Med to the Red Sea (or vice-a-versa) at the cost of 1 range and 1 MP. The Panama Canal works the same way.

Steve is correct in #359. I might add Orm indicated that units can move directly from the E. Med to the Red Sea through the Suez canal.

While nowhere in RAW is there an explicit list of which sea areas are adjacent, the adjacency of E. Med and Red Sea is made clear in some of the other rules text, to whit:

(1) From § 11.4.2:

11.4.2 Moving naval units
You can move your naval units through a series of adjacent sea areas and ports.
Each naval unit has a range and a movement allowance. The range determines how far the unit can move; the movement allowance determines how effective it will be when it patrols a sea area.
How do units move?
You can only move a naval unit if it is face-up in a sea-box or in a port.
You can move your naval units individually or in a task force. To move naval units in a task force, they must all start in the same port or sea-box section.
You can split a moving task force in any sea area or port it passes through. Each time you split a task force from the main force, you use a separate naval move (exception: SUB task forces ~ see 11.4.1). The task force you split off can’t move any further.
Example: 2 Commonwealth SCS sail together from Alexandria to the eastern Mediterranean. It is not possible for one to move into the Red Sea while the other enters the western Mediterranean. One could stop in the eastern Mediterranean while the other continues on to either of those adjacent sea areas. That would then count as 2 naval moves. Alternatively, you could move them separately to the Red Sea and the western Mediterranean. That would also count as 2 naval moves.

Emphasis mine. This example implicitly relies on the adjacency of the Red Sea and E. Med; otherwise the split under discussion would involve the choice between moving to the W. Med and Suez.

(2) From § 11.4.4:

11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions
[...]
2. You can’t move naval units between the Eastern Mediterranean and the Red Sea, or between Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean, if a major power you are at war with controls any of the hexes adjacent to the Suez Canal.

Point 2 explicitly mentions direct movement from the E. Med to the Red Sea as distinct from moving between Suez and the E. Med.

ORIGINAL: composer99

Steve is correct in #359. I might add Orm indicated that units can move directly from the E. Med to the Red Sea through the Suez canal.

While nowhere in RAW is there an explicit list of which sea areas are adjacent, the adjacency of E. Med and Red Sea is made clear in some of the other rules text, to whit:

(1) From § 11.4.2:

11.4.2 Moving naval units
You can move your naval units through a series of adjacent sea areas and ports.
Each naval unit has a range and a movement allowance. The range determines how far the unit can move; the movement allowance determines how effective it will be when it patrols a sea area.
How do units move?
You can only move a naval unit if it is face-up in a sea-box or in a port.
You can move your naval units individually or in a task force. To move naval units in a task force, they must all start in the same port or sea-box section.
You can split a moving task force in any sea area or port it passes through. Each time you split a task force from the main force, you use a separate naval move (exception: SUB task forces ~ see 11.4.1). The task force you split off can’t move any further.
Example: 2 Commonwealth SCS sail together from Alexandria to the eastern Mediterranean. It is not possible for one to move into the Red Sea while the other enters the western Mediterranean. One could stop in the eastern Mediterranean while the other continues on to either of those adjacent sea areas. That would then count as 2 naval moves. Alternatively, you could move them separately to the Red Sea and the western Mediterranean. That would also count as 2 naval moves.

Emphasis mine. This example implicitly relies on the adjacency of the Red Sea and E. Med; otherwise the split under discussion would involve the choice between moving to the W. Med and Suez.

(2) From § 11.4.4:

11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions
[...]
2. You can’t move naval units between the Eastern Mediterranean and the Red Sea, or between Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean, if a major power you are at war with controls any of the hexes adjacent to the Suez Canal.

Point 2 explicitly mentions direct movement from the E. Med to the Red Sea as distinct from moving between Suez and the E. Med.

This statement clearly defines what sea zones are and are not adjacent.

"Two sea areas are adjacent if they share a common sea area border or if they are directly connected by a blue communication line."

I'm looking at the VASSAL map and the Red Sea zone and Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone do not have a sea border and are not connected by a blue communication line therefore they are not adjacent.

2.1.2 Sea areas
The seas are divided into areas by dark blue lines (called sea area borders). Each sea area is individually named (e.g. ‘RED SEA’). Each sea area contains a sea-box which regulates movement and combat at sea. Two sea areas are adjacent if they share a common sea area border or if they are directly connected by a blue communication line. Some sea areas on the west European and Pacifi c maps contain statements that they are connected to one or more sea areas on the USA minimap. The connected sea areas are also adjacent.

The Mozambique Channel and the Azanian Sea (both on the Asian map) are connected. Treat hexdot ‘O’ as being connected to the hexdot south of hex ‘U’ by a blue communication line.

The Red Sea is the only sea area that is on 2 maps. The sea-box is only on the east European map but the hex-dot on the Asian map is still part of the same sea area. The hex-dot on the Asian map is adjacent to the large hex-dot at the eastern end of the sea area on the east European map.

Blue communication lines
Only aircraft and naval units (and their cargoes) can move along blue communication lines.

A naval unit moves along blue communication line from sea area to sea area.

An aircraft unit moves along a blue communication line from any adjacent hex-dot in the fi rst sea area to an adjacent hex-dot in the second sea area (see 14.1.2). If it’s not clear which hex-dots are adjacent to a blue communication line, the nearest ones always are.

Example: The hex-dot in the Denmark Strait to the right of Iceland is adjacent to the blue communication line connecting to the Norwegian Sea and the Faeroes Gap sea areas. The hex-dot to the left of Iceland is adjacent to the blue communication line connecting to the North Atlantic and the Canadian Coast Sea areas.[/b]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: composer99

Steve is correct in #359. I might add Orm indicated that units can move directly from the E. Med to the Red Sea through the Suez canal.

While nowhere in RAW is there an explicit list of which sea areas are adjacent, the adjacency of E. Med and Red Sea is made clear in some of the other rules text, to whit:

(1) From § 11.4.2:

11.4.2 Moving naval units
You can move your naval units through a series of adjacent sea areas and ports.
Each naval unit has a range and a movement allowance. The range determines how far the unit can move; the movement allowance determines how effective it will be when it patrols a sea area.
How do units move?
You can only move a naval unit if it is face-up in a sea-box or in a port.
You can move your naval units individually or in a task force. To move naval units in a task force, they must all start in the same port or sea-box section.
You can split a moving task force in any sea area or port it passes through. Each time you split a task force from the main force, you use a separate naval move (exception: SUB task forces ~ see 11.4.1). The task force you split off can’t move any further.
Example: 2 Commonwealth SCS sail together from Alexandria to the eastern Mediterranean. It is not possible for one to move into the Red Sea while the other enters the western Mediterranean. One could stop in the eastern Mediterranean while the other continues on to either of those adjacent sea areas. That would then count as 2 naval moves. Alternatively, you could move them separately to the Red Sea and the western Mediterranean. That would also count as 2 naval moves.

Emphasis mine. This example implicitly relies on the adjacency of the Red Sea and E. Med; otherwise the split under discussion would involve the choice between moving to the W. Med and Suez.

(2) From § 11.4.4:

11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions
[...]
2. You can’t move naval units between the Eastern Mediterranean and the Red Sea, or between Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean, if a major power you are at war with controls any of the hexes adjacent to the Suez Canal.

Point 2 explicitly mentions direct movement from the E. Med to the Red Sea as distinct from moving between Suez and the E. Med.

This statement clearly defines what sea zones are and are not adjacent.

"Two sea areas are adjacent if they share a common sea area border or if they are directly connected by a blue communication line."

I'm looking at the VASSAL map and the Red Sea zone and Eastern Mediterranean Sea zone do not have a sea border and are not connected by a blue communication line therefore they are not adjacent.

2.1.2 Sea areas
The seas are divided into areas by dark blue lines (called sea area borders). Each sea area is individually named (e.g. ‘RED SEA’). Each sea area contains a sea-box which regulates movement and combat at sea. Two sea areas are adjacent if they share a common sea area border or if they are directly connected by a blue communication line. Some sea areas on the west European and Pacifi c maps contain statements that they are connected to one or more sea areas on the USA minimap. The connected sea areas are also adjacent.

The Mozambique Channel and the Azanian Sea (both on the Asian map) are connected. Treat hexdot ‘O’ as being connected to the hexdot south of hex ‘U’ by a blue communication line.

The Red Sea is the only sea area that is on 2 maps. The sea-box is only on the east European map but the hex-dot on the Asian map is still part of the same sea area. The hex-dot on the Asian map is adjacent to the large hex-dot at the eastern end of the sea area on the east European map.

Blue communication lines
Only aircraft and naval units (and their cargoes) can move along blue communication lines.

A naval unit moves along blue communication line from sea area to sea area.

An aircraft unit moves along a blue communication line from any adjacent hex-dot in the fi rst sea area to an adjacent hex-dot in the second sea area (see 14.1.2). If it’s not clear which hex-dots are adjacent to a blue communication line, the nearest ones always are.

Example: The hex-dot in the Denmark Strait to the right of Iceland is adjacent to the blue communication line connecting to the Norwegian Sea and the Faeroes Gap sea areas. The hex-dot to the left of Iceland is adjacent to the blue communication line connecting to the North Atlantic and the Canadian Coast Sea areas.[/b]

Carrying your logic forward, the omission of a dark blue line (a sea area border line) between the Red Sea and the Eastern Med means that the Red Sea is not adjacent to the Eastern Med.

I doubt that that was the intention of the ADG designers. It is vastly more likely that the person who drew the map thought that putting in a dark blue line somewhere across the middle of the Suez Canal was aesthetically displeasing - or he simply forgot to draw it in. Historically the Suez Canal was used throughout the war to send naval units between the two sea areas.

Can agree that these sea areas are adjacent in game terms and move on to more interesting aspects of the Italian strategic plan?

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

The desert hex east of Cairo has two all-sea hexsides on the Red Sea (the Gulf of Suez technically). So it can be invaded from the Red Sea. Suez itself does not have an all-sea hexside - it has two hexsides on the Suez Canal instead.

Isnt an all-sea hexside those with a dot in middle?

that is a very common question about this game. an all-sea hexside is simply that....even an all-sea hexside that has a land hex on each side, rather than land on one side and a blue hex with a dot on the other side.

so all 3 hexes due south of Suez can be invaded from the Red Sea, not just the 3rd hex (the desert mountain one that is adjacent to a hex-dot)

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Carrying your logic forward, the omission of a dark blue line (a sea area border line) between the Red Sea and the Eastern Med means that the Red Sea is not adjacent to the Eastern Med.

I doubt that that was the intention of the ADG designers. It is vastly more likely that the person who drew the map thought that putting in a dark blue line somewhere across the middle of the Suez Canal was aesthetically displeasing - or he simply forgot to draw it in. Historically the Suez Canal was used throughout the war to send naval units between the two sea areas.

Can agree that these sea areas are adjacent in game terms and move on to more interesting aspects of the Italian strategic plan?

That is exactly my point. You have to go though Suez to get to the Red Sea or the Eastern Mediterranean.


Lets take the proposed invasion of Malta as an example where Italy had assembled ten passenger ships (800-1,400 men each).

That's 8,000 to 14,000 men or about a division.

Your example is to send a TRS with a corps and invade Egypt from the south. Lets say the TRS represents these 10 ships for your invasion.

It takes 11 to 16 hours per ship to transit the Suez Canal (I looked it up).

They go slow to avoid eroding the canal, have places where ships can pass others, but mostly ships sail in single file.

Today only 50 ships go through the canal a day. Your TRS would represent 20% of today's traffic in the canal.

This means it will take you 4 to 5 days for your 10 ships to clear the canal if they are sailing back to back.

It takes time to transit the Suez Canal, which would be reflected in a loss of range and movement.



Sure lets move on.

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Steve or anyone? Can someone mark up the hex on map below which is next to Suez and Cairo and is invadeable.....so i can follow this thread.

Not sure if the invasion is coming from the E.Med or Red Sea?

There was an excellent thread on invadeable coastal hexes a few years ago but I need a refresher on this if someone doesn't mind.

Edit - just to add that yes I can see which hex it should b,e but it doesn't look like a hex which can be invaded?

The desert hex east of Cairo has two all-sea hexsides on the Red Sea (the Gulf of Suez technically). So it can be invaded from the Red Sea. Suez itself does not have an all-sea hexside - it has two hexsides on the Suez Canal instead.

Isnt an all-sea hexside those with a dot in middle?

No. An all-sea hexside is one (or more) side of the hexagon that only touches water. As explained before,
(46,36) cannot be invaded from the Baltic but can be invaded from the North Sea. Hex (45, 36) is adjacent to the same two sea areas, but from which one it can be invaded, is reversed. I have color coded yellow for OK and purple for NOT OK.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

An Italian light cruiser (range 3 / speed 5 = Taranto;) could only make the 2 box of the Red Sea from Italy, giving the notional a factor. Trickier delayed re-basing / re-org schemes using Tripoli are possible though.

Later in the war the way to take Aden is to clear the Suez Canal with land units on a summer turn, immediately sail a CA + Division through the Canal, DOW Yemen and land there, then walk into Aden if the CW has nothing to react to the landing in Aden. The Royal Navy is more likely to be using Bombay as a base, for secure land access to oil and supply. Makes a good base for the Japanese or Italians though. In 1939 the Italians would be better off trying for a port in the Levant in an eastward focused Italian strategy.

Good point, there are no Italian Cruisers with the right range and movement combination to get to the Red Sea 3-box in one impulse. (Ignore the red herring about spending any more than one range and one movement to go from the East Med to the Red Sea - that's not how the game is played.)