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Well I know where the smart money lies on that one. I mean...he's a lawyer. It's obvious.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Even his "para-legals" bill $180 an hour. That seems high as well but I guess there is an extra charge for jumping out of the C-47 or something.

It's not the jumping. It's the support bras that cost so much.

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

We interviewed this lawyer for a by-laws rewrite and the guys wanted $540 an hour [X(] Santa Maria! That is worse than Saul the gardener.

Even his "para-legals" bill $180 an hour. That seems high as well but I guess there is an extra charge for jumping out of the C-47 or something.

Either the guy is really, really....I mean REALLY good.....or he's just a greedy douche taking advantage of people in a tough economic climate.

"OR"? Why not "AND"?

One of my favorite quotes: "I either want to see less corruption in the world or have a greater opportunity to participate in it."

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Even his "para-legals" bill $180 an hour. That seems high as well but I guess there is an extra charge for jumping out of the C-47 or something.

It's not the jumping. It's the support bras that cost so much.

And in a pinch can be used as either a parachute or a flotation device.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

We interviewed this lawyer for a by-laws rewrite and the guys wanted $540 an hour [X(] Santa Maria! That is worse than Saul the gardener.

Even his "para-legals" bill $180 an hour. That seems high as well but I guess there is an extra charge for jumping out of the C-47 or something.

Either the guy is really, really....I mean REALLY good.....or he's just a greedy douche taking advantage of people in a tough economic climate.

"OR"? Why not "AND"?

One of my favorite quotes: "I either want to see less corruption in the world or have a greater opportunity to participate in it."

Probably because I dont believe that anyone is worth that kind of money. You can certainly be good at something. But it strikes me as perverse that someone can earn in a day what it takes someone else to earn in a month.

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo




Either the guy is really, really....I mean REALLY good.....or he's just a greedy douche taking advantage of people in a tough economic climate.

"OR"? Why not "AND"?

One of my favorite quotes: "I either want to see less corruption in the world or have a greater opportunity to participate in it."

Probably because I dont believe that anyone is worth that kind of money. You can certainly be good at something. But it strikes me as perverse that someone can earn in a day what it takes someone else to earn in a month.

Comrade red mouse: Sorry to disappoint you, but if you parse out some of the top 2% of earners in this country, you'll find hourly wages that approximate those of which you speak. Perverse? Maybe. Supply and demand? Definitely.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy



"OR"? Why not "AND"?

One of my favorite quotes: "I either want to see less corruption in the world or have a greater opportunity to participate in it."

Probably because I dont believe that anyone is worth that kind of money. You can certainly be good at something. But it strikes me as perverse that someone can earn in a day what it takes someone else to earn in a month.

Comrade red mouse: Sorry to disappoint you, but if you parse out some of the top 2% of earners in this country, you'll find hourly wages that approximate those of which you speak. Perverse? Maybe. Supply and demand? Definitely.

I know. But you asked why "or" not "and". I took that as a solicitation of my opinion. Therefore.... [:D]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

...

Probably because I dont believe that anyone is worth that kind of money. You can certainly be good at something. But it strikes me as perverse that someone can earn in a day what it takes someone else to earn in a month.

Comrade red mouse: Sorry to disappoint you, but if you parse out some of the top 2% of earners in this country, you'll find hourly wages that approximate those of which you speak. Perverse? Maybe. Supply and demand? Definitely.

A cynic would say it has more to do with the distance they are from the company treasury rather than the value of their work....

Ever seen an under paid accountant*??? (I can say that because my brother is one [:'(])

[size=-3](*Disclaimer: must be working for a company with lots of cash to be creative with...)[/size]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy



"OR"? Why not "AND"?

One of my favorite quotes: "I either want to see less corruption in the world or have a greater opportunity to participate in it."

Probably because I dont believe that anyone is worth that kind of money. You can certainly be good at something. But it strikes me as perverse that someone can earn in a day what it takes someone else to earn in a month.

Comrade red mouse: Sorry to disappoint you, but if you parse out some of the top 2% of earners in this country, you'll find hourly wages that approximate those of which you speak. Perverse? Maybe. Supply and demand? Definitely.

Don't think so... maybe the top 0.2%...

The top 2% (in the USA) make 250+K/year, divided by (say) 40 hours/week, working (say) 48 weeks comes out to about $130/hour... of course, most people getting that much aren't just working 40 hours/week, so it probably is closer to $100/hour... $540/hour is about 5x that.

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Don't think so... maybe the top 0.2%...

The top 2% (in the USA) make 250+K/year, divided by (say) 40 hours/week, working (say) 48 weeks comes out to about $130/hour... of course, most people getting that much aren't just working 40 hours/week, so it probably is closer to $100/hour... $540/hour is about 5x that.

Well, not going to defend this steep rate, but I think it is a common mistake to compare what an employee *earns/makes* to what someone who is self-employed *bills*. There are expenses involved in running a business, and overhead processes make it unlikely that each hour of said attorney's working day can be billed.

If you want to arrive at outrageous hourly wages, use a hospital bill for a 4 hour surgery to calculate what the surgeon supposedly makes per hour. The surgeons will tell you that they make much less money per hour, and the difference is not equal to profit of the hospital operator either.

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

ORIGINAL: Reg

Ever seen an under paid accountant*??? (I can say that because my brother is one [:'(])

[size=-3](*Disclaimer: must be working for a company with lots of cash to be creative with...)[/size]

Hopefully not the GFU. I'm expecting her to start earning $500 an hour so I can enjoy the finer things in life. [:D]

Speaking of billable hours, an anesthesiologist told me this story. He was monitoring (after having adminstered spinal or epidural anesthesia...shot in the back..numb below the waist kind of thing with the patient alert) during surgery. The pt. is a lawyer and the anesthesiologist is stuck up behind the surgical drape near the pt's head. Naturally, they start gabbing. Pretty soon they are talking about retirememt "vehicles" which is what the atty. does. The surgery goes well and a week later the doc gets a bill for a 45 minute consultation along with some documents and a charge for copying. [:D]

His mistake was letting the lawyer wake up (yes I know he wasn't fully under- another mistake..........)

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

His mistake was letting the lawyer wake up (yes I know he wasn't fully under- another mistake..........)

I like your idea. It has merit. Are you in agreement with Dick the Butcher or are you calling for a selective culling of the herd?


There may be certain "legal" obstacles.

Selective?

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Selective?

Do you really want to get rid of half the Congress?*






*It's a big hanging curve ball

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
*It's a big hanging curve ball

I hear that they can correct this sort of thing with surgery nowadays.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
*It's a big hanging curve ball

I hear that they can correct this sort of thing with surgery nowadays.

No thanks..rather a source of pride, actually.

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Don't think so... maybe the top 0.2%...

The top 2% (in the USA) make 250+K/year, divided by (say) 40 hours/week, working (say) 48 weeks comes out to about $130/hour... of course, most people getting that much aren't just working 40 hours/week, so it probably is closer to $100/hour... $540/hour is about 5x that.

Well, not going to defend this steep rate, but I think it is a common mistake to compare what an employee *earns/makes* to what someone who is self-employed *bills*. There are expenses involved in running a business, and overhead processes make it unlikely that each hour of said attorney's working day can be billed.

If you want to arrive at outrageous hourly wages, use a hospital bill for a 4 hour surgery to calculate what the surgeon supposedly makes per hour. The surgeons will tell you that they make much less money per hour, and the difference is not equal to profit of the hospital operator either.

Just my 2cts.

Hartwig

There is a WORLD of difference between how doctors get paid and how lawyers get paid... the doctors rates are "negotiated" and set by insurance companies, the government, etc. Not so lawyers (for the most part).

If you negotiate to pay a lawyer $500+ an hour, well, that's what you will end up paying, most likely. If a surgeon bills you $20,000 for an operation, he may end up with 1/10th that (or less).

EDIT: Admittedly, the lawyer will have some expenses, but i am willing to bet they are not $400/hour.

rtrapasso,

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
There is a WORLD of difference between how doctors get paid and how lawyers get paid... the doctors rates are "negotiated" and set by insurance companies, the government, etc. Not so lawyers (for the most part).

Well... probably depends on the country. In Germany, I would say there is a world of difference between how doctors/lawyers and doctors/lawyers get paid.

Here, there are doctors - especially radiologists - that can easily compete with or beat a lawyer who charges a high price per hour. There are lawyers (the ones whose clients can only afford to pay according to the RVG, a German law setting standard attorney fees as a function of the value of the case, not the time spent on it - of course, your client can agree to pay more, but that means he really wants that lawyer) who make significantly less than a general practicioner, set rates and all.

If you negotiate to pay a lawyer $500+ an hour, well, that's what you will end up paying, most likely. If a surgeon bills you $20,000 for an operation, he may end up with 1/10th that (or less).

I guess less. But that is exactly my point - from the bill, it is difficult to derive what the person gets, and that is what is being done here.

EDIT: Admittedly, the lawyer will have some expenses, but i am willing to bet they are not $400/hour.

Well, of course this lawyer is most likely not a poor man, and as I said at the beginning of my post - I am not going to defend the high rate or claim that it is reasonable that the market will pay that price. At the same time, I am still not comfortable with the "per billed hour" assessment of expenses (which, btw, grow with the fee you charge). If you run your own business (at least with lower hourly fees) you usually are quite aware of the number of hours you have to bill before your expenses are met and you start making money. That makes you a bit sensitive if people tend to assume they can calculate your income by multiplying the hourly fee you charge with 40-50 hours per week.

Hartwig